US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

Punishing the Messenger. Who are the "Good Union Pilots"?

Used as a tool to suppress dissenting opinion, the CLT Reps seek to remove two of USAPA's founders from responsibilities within USAPA. Is this part of a bigger agenda and is it even legal?

See Story

Great link!

Nothing warms my heart more than watching the two Original Scabs King and Scabford engaged in a jr. High pissing match with the Monster they created. NOW their concerned with democracy? NOW their concerned with labor law? NOW their concerned with the DOL showing up asking questions? NOW their concerned if USAPA is operating illegally?

Idiots. All that was established by a Jury a long time ago. Keep fighting ladies. Keep swinging your purses at each other while the children drown in the LOA93 lake in the background.

 

[No Land Green]

Great link!

Nothing warms my heart more than watching the two Original Scabs King and Scabford engaged in a jr. High pissing match with the Monster they created. NOW their concerned with democracy? NOW their concerned with labor law? NOW their concerned with the DOL showing up asking questions? NOW their concerned if USAPA is operating illegally?

Idiots. All that was established by a Jury a long time ago. Keep fighting ladies. Keep swinging your purses at each other while the children drown in the LOA93 lake in the background.

check your grammar and spelling..........LMAO

 

[Freebird]

You jumped into and answered a post that I directed at another poster, and called me classless. I just pointed out that you are not one to judge in that area.

I have not been outclassed in any argument on this board, and for the 1000th time, it's not "MY INEPT ATTEMPT". I didn't think what USAPA wanted to would work and I didn't vote for them. If I was king, we wouldn't be here right now, but I'm not. But.....unlike most on the west, I have accepted the way things are and realized we had to let things work themselves out. You guys scream for a contract on one hand, then do everything possible to keep one from happening. Integrity.

You ask how much they have cost me. I have no idea. They may have saved me money because if the alternative was a Kirby contract with the Nic, I think I'm one of the guys that is better off. I'm a bottom captain now, and even on LOA 93, I think I'm better off than what would be available with the Nic. What has your unending fight for no change to the Nic cost you? It's a guess for you too, but you feel it's worth it, right? That's how most on the east feel. I have no illusion that the west attitude will change, so until events change the east attitude or the courts rule one way or another, there is no contract and there in no movement and no amount of whining is going to change it.

Fair enough.

However, the union representing the East has one purpose and that is to delay the implementation of the award to 'favor' the East. The actions of USAPA show how low a group of individuals will go to impose their wishes upon the minority to help only themselves. The West has not been fairly represented since day one.

You say you didnt support USAPA, but have you gained from their delay at the expense of the West? You're either with us or against us. The East has far too many pilots "hoping" to be made whole at the expense of the West, by the promises of USAPA.

What does a bottom Captain make? Would it not be more, plus the benefits of the West contract, than a Captain seat under LOA93? Are the Ego's so fragile back East that you value a title of Captain at any cost? You guys are losing at least 40k a year, for what? To tell your neighbors you are a Captain? Dont forget to tell them that you choose to remain at the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits for that title.

I'm not whining. I'm just sharing the truth with you.



USAPA = My neighbor thinks I'm a Captain

 

[No Land Green]

Fair enough.

However, the union representing the East has one purpose and that is to delay the implementation of the award to 'favor' the East. The actions of USAPA show how low a group of individuals will go to impose their wishes upon the minority to help only themselves. The West has not been fairly represented since day one.

You say you didnt support USAPA, but have you gained from their delay at the expense of the West? You're either with us or against us. The East has far too many pilots "hoping" to be made whole at the expense of the West, by the promises of USAPA.

What does a bottom Captain make? Would it not be more, plus the benefits of the West contract, than a Captain seat under LOA93? Are the Ego's so fragile back East that you value a title of Captain at any cost? You guys are losing at least 40k a year, for what? To tell your neighbors you are a Captain? Dont forget to tell them that you choose to remain at the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits for that title.

I'm not whining. I'm just sharing the truth with you.



USAPA = My neighbor thinks I'm a Captain

Where do you come up with "You guys are losing at least 40k a year"?

 

[nevergiveup]

Fair enough.

However, the union representing the East has one purpose and that is to delay the implementation of the award to 'favor' the East. The actions of USAPA show how low a group of individuals will go to impose their wishes upon the minority to help only themselves. The West has not been fairly represented since day one.

You say you didnt support USAPA, but have you gained from their delay at the expense of the West? You're either with us or against us. The East has far too many pilots "hoping" to be made whole at the expense of the West, by the promises of USAPA.

What does a bottom Captain make? Would it not be more, plus the benefits of the West contract, than a Captain seat under LOA93? Are the Ego's so fragile back East that you value a title of Captain at any cost? You guys are losing at least 40k a year, for what? To tell your neighbors you are a Captain? Dont forget to tell them that you choose to remain at the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits for that title.

I'm not whining. I'm just sharing the truth with you.



USAPA = My neighbor thinks I'm a Captain

Always interesting how the West complains more about LOA 93 than the East.

 

[No Land Green]

Always interesting how the West complains more about LOA 93 than the East.

I've observed the same thing, interesting, isn't it?

 

[GuntherA320]

USAPA is just wasting time and money chasing its tail
How much money have they cost you?

USAPA = Stay Desperate, My Friends...

I have to laugh at this. USAPA in a worst case scenario = infinite delay of the Nicolau award (You yourself said you don't see USAPA getting a contract). USAPA hasn't cost me a dime more than ALPA would have. In fact, USAPA has made me quite a bit of money because it has PREVENTED implementation of the NIC (Many east pilots would have either been pinned to the bottom on the E190 and some even furloughed like the West pilots). Now, other than the most senior F/O positions, the E190 is staffed by new hires. Those new hires will be able to move off of the 190 within one year. Meanwhile the West languishes in stagnation. You guys will just have to wait. Who knows.....one day you might even get your precious NIC....but not before it has been neutered by the passage of time.

How much money has USAPA cost YOU Freebird? Have you made your Leonidas donation this week?

 

[GuntherA320]

Always interesting how the West complains more about LOA 93 than the East.

If you didn't know any better, you would think it was the West that made less money than the East.

 

[East Hole]

Enjoy your:

2 weeks of vacation? (Most West pilots have close to 4 weeks or more)

your Industry LOW pay (less than Spirit, Allegiant, Horizon, Jet Blue, Southwest, Delta, Fedex, UPS)

your 1/2 DH pay (Ouch)

your "non"-pay for trip cancellations (Ouch again)

your "non"-crew meals (except what may be "taken" from the galley or left over first class meals)

your line bidding (PBS is the future)

and all the other "gems" that you choose to embrace.

Please give our furloughees their jobs back. The job they had out West while you were furloughed. Please honor your agreements, you owe it to your family and fellow pilots.



USAPA = Gemologists

3 weeks of vacation at least some of that in summer. I rarely ever DH. I like the line building process we have. Sorry can not remember the last time i had a flight cancel. The pay could be better but that will change soon since I am moving up the list and have more opportunities that I would not have had with NICK in place. Kirby proposal would not be enough to give up the chance to move up the list while they shrink the west and westies move in on top of me. From where I am sitting I really cannot see how Kirby with NICK would be good in the slightest for me.

 

[Freebird]

I have to laugh at this. USAPA in a worst case scenario = infinite delay of the Nicolau award (You yourself said you don't see USAPA getting a contract). USAPA hasn't cost me a dime more than ALPA would have. In fact, USAPA has made me quite a bit of money because it has PREVENTED implementation of the NIC (Many east pilots would have either been pinned to the bottom on the E190 and some even furloughed like the West pilots). Now, other than the most senior F/O positions, the E190 is staffed by new hires. Those new hires will be able to move off of the 190 within one year. Meanwhile the West languishes in stagnation. You guys will just have to wait. Who knows.....one day you might even get your precious NIC....but not before it has been neutered by the passage of time.

How much money has USAPA cost YOU Freebird? Have you made your Leonidas donation this week?

USAPA has kept you at industry low pay, I'd say that has cost you more than a dime and along with the other gems of LOA93. I've don't recall having said USAPA wont get a contract. I have said that they are afraid to put a contract up for a vote because they know the majority would vote in favor of a contract which includes the NIC. USAPA doesnt want to give you the option out of fear.

Additionally,USAPA's PREVENTION of the Binding Arbitration is a DFR against the West.

On the East a 20+ year Airbus F/O earns $85/hour under LOA93. Thats quite a sacrifice to delay the Nicolau Award. You're selling yourself short in order to harm the very pilots USAPA is to "represent".


USAPA = Living in fear.

 

[Freebird]

Always interesting how the West complains more about LOA 93 than the East.

Is it because the East pilots are full of apathy? There's not a lot of hope for the downtrodden East pilots who have been kept down over and over again by their own union.

USAPA = mediocrity

 

[CactusPilot1]

It looks like Usapians have a plan B after all....The Teamsters
Count me out. <_<

Jimmy Hoffa, president of the Teamster’s Union, disappeared without a trace on July 30, 1975. Jimmy Hoffa led the teamsters from 1957 to 1971. From the beginning, he had been instrumental in unionizing workers and had been the brains and guts behind its success. It was alleged that he had ties to organized crime. He admitted that liaisons with the Mob were needed, because they had the power to disrupt strikes, so deals had to be made with them. The federal investigators pursued him in the 1950’s & ‘60’s without much success at first, "charging that his empire thrived on violence, fraud and misuse of union money."

The Justice Department during the Kennedy Administration turned up the heat and made the charges stick finally convicting him in 1964. In 1967, after all his appeals were exhausted he was sent to federal prison at Lewisburg, PA., convicted on the testimony of a teamster, Edward Grady Putin who was awaiting trial for a variety of crimes, and had made a deal with the prosecution. Thus Hoffa was convicted of fund fraud, jury tampering and conspiracy, along with teamster Tony "pro" Provenzano, whom Hoffa blamed for drawing federal interest in the first place to his illegal activities.

Hoffa only served 4 years of his 13 year sentence, because President Nixon commuted his sentence, with the understanding that Hoffa wouldn’t resume his office until 1980, which would’ve been the end of his sentence. This deal supposedly was made between the White House and Union Vice-President Frank Fitzsimmons, who was now Hoffa’s rival for power in the Union.

On July 30th, 1975 things did not start off well for Hoffa, when New Jersey mob leader Tony "jack" Giacalone and Tony "pro" Provenzano, the same fellow Teamster that had been in prison with Hoffa stood him up at the luncheon meeting at Machus Red Fox restaurant in Michigan, that they were supposed to have, which indicates that Hoffa had fallen out of favor with some rather nasty people, in the mob and in his own Union. Several hours passed, and Hoffa called home to see if they left any messages. His last phone call was to his friend, Louis Linteau. Apparently a car load of men did finally pick him up, and he was last seen sitting in the back seat, with several men, leaning forward to talk to the driver. The F.B.I think that he never left that car alive. His blood and hair were found in the car he was last seen in.

When he failed to come back, the authorities swung into a full man hunt, questioning Union Mob friends, digging up various places, hammering walls and cement floors looking for his body, but to no avail. The F.B.I theorize that his body was run through a Mob-controlled fat-rendering plant that was later mysteriously destroyed by fire. In 1983, Hoffa was declared legally dead.

After talking to many people, it was discovered that Hoffa had many enemies. At the top of the list, suspects included Russell Bufalino, Anthony "Tony Pro" Provenzano & two Hoffa cronies, Thomas Andretta, Gabriel Briguglio and Salvador Briguglio, who was killed for talking to the F.B.I. There wasn’t enough evidence to charge any of these fellows, but they all wound up in prison for other crimes.

In 2001, DNA tests done by FBI experts have tied Hoffa to his friend’s car, an associate by the name of Charles O'Brien, and charges may still be made in his death.

One theory as to why he was bumped off, was that he had begun to "spill the beans" about the connections between the Union and organized crime, because he was livid about the deal Fitzsimmons had made with the White House.

Others think he was rubbed out because he was trying to regain his power in the Union, and certain individuals weren’t about to let him. Tony "pro" Provenzano had told him at one point, "get out of Union politics or else." The F.B.I. and many teamsters think that "Tony Pro" ordered Hoffa’s death, and the new Jersey Mafia did the deed and disposed of the body. "Tony Pro" had an air-tight alibi though.

Other individuals have linked his murder to various parts of the continuing corrupt relationship between the mob and the Union, whose pension funds have been blended in with illegal gains from gambling, prostitution and illegal drugs. It seems that the Mob found Hoffa’s replacement, Frank Fitzsimmons much easier to manipulate and deal with. Also, Frank Fitzsimmons was approved of by the White House, while Hoffa was not, and would have the Feds watching their operations closely, making illegal mob activities harder to carry out.

Jimmy "The Weasel" Fratianno stated in his book, "The Last Mafioso," that Hoffa wasn’t killed by the New Jersey Mob at all, but by the local Detroit Mafia bosses. He says that Tony Giacalone, a close friend of Hoffa set him up, and Tony Zerilli and Mike Polizi ordered him killed.

Others have claimed that he isn’t dead, just in hiding. One teamster stuck to his story when diligently questioned by the authorities that Hoffa had run off to Brazil with a black go-go dancer.

 

[nevergiveup]

Is it because the East pilots are full of apathy? There's not a lot of hope for the downtrodden East pilots who have been kept down over and over again by their own union.

USAPA = mediocrity

That would be ALPA of course.

 

[Pi brat]

Fair enough.

However, the union representing the East has one purpose and that is to delay the implementation of the award to 'favor' the East. The actions of USAPA show how low a group of individuals will go to impose their wishes upon the minority to help only themselves. The West has not been fairly represented since day one.

You say you didnt support USAPA, but have you gained from their delay at the expense of the West? You're either with us or against us. The East has far too many pilots "hoping" to be made whole at the expense of the West, by the promises of USAPA.

What does a bottom Captain make? Would it not be more, plus the benefits of the West contract, than a Captain seat under LOA93? Are the Ego's so fragile back East that you value a title of Captain at any cost? You guys are losing at least 40k a year, for what? To tell your neighbors you are a Captain? Dont forget to tell them that you choose to remain at the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits for that title.

I'm not whining. I'm just sharing the truth with you.



USAPA = My neighbor thinks I'm a Captain

You are just sharing the truth with me. That's funny. It's your(and AOL's version) of the truth. You conveniently leave out the "truths" that don't favor your side. I pointed out a few of those from the brochure.

Let me make this really clear-I'd like to find an answer for ALL US Airways pilots, but if I'm going to have to choose between east and west, it will be east. You comment that the east is hoping to be made whole at the expense of the west is bullshit and one of the more maddening things you publish. You really don't do anything to help your cause by posting things like that, it just hardens people's resolve.

A bottom captain could make more with the Kirby, but if he is displaced back to the right seat. it would be a loss. A contract will have to come in much higher than Kirby to even that out. So, until that total package is a better deal, I'm not too worried about LOA 93. My friend is one of the really bottom captains and we figured out a few hundred posts ago that he is about 18% from the bottom of the Nic. How long do you think he will hold on to that left seat? Then maybe he could go back to the right seat of the 76, right? Probably not. He is waaay junior to me and the guy on the Nic above me is not now, and has never been a capt., a 767 F/O, or an A330 F/O. We on the east have seen how long it takes for those guys to migrate, then as Gunter said, the bottom east guys would get to fly F/O reserve or the E190. Wow! Why are those guys not clamoring for a deal? They are so stupid. For another week or two of vacation and some other contract enhancements they could have less money, lessened move up potential, and maybe even work all the holidays. What's not to love?

I know that you and the brochure people are preaching to the senior east pilots. We will see if they respond, but I predict a slow response, absent some as of now unknown event.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

You are just sharing the truth with me. That's funny. It's your(and AOL's version) of the truth. You conveniently leave out the "truths" that don't favor your side. I pointed out a few of those from the brochure.

Let me make this really clear-I'd like to find an answer for ALL US Airways pilots, but if I'm going to have to choose between east and west, it will be east. You comment that the east is hoping to be made whole at the expense of the west is bullshit and one of the more maddening things you publish. You really don't do anything to help your cause by posting things like that, it just hardens people's resolve.

A bottom captain could make more with the Kirby, but if he is displaced back to the right seat. it would be a loss. A contract will have to come in much higher than Kirby to even that out. So, until that total package is a better deal, I'm not too worried about LOA 93. My friend is one of the really bottom captains and we figured out a few hundred posts ago that he is about 18% from the bottom of the Nic. How long do you think he will hold on to that left seat? Then maybe he could go back to the right seat of the 76, right? Probably not. He is waaay junior to me and the guy on the Nic above me is not now, and has never been a capt., a 767 F/O, or an A330 F/O. We on the east have seen how long it takes for those guys to migrate, then as Gunter said, the bottom east guys would get to fly F/O reserve or the E190. Wow! Why are those guys not clamoring for a deal? They are so stupid. For another week or two of vacation and some other contract enhancements they could have less money, lessened move up potential, and maybe even work all the holidays. What's not to love?

I know that you and the brochure people are preaching to the senior east pilots. We will see if they respond, but I predict a slow response, absent some as of now unknown event.

Plus, given the world as it is today, people are just one big geopolitical event away from losing contract gains. No one can argue against the fact the world is less stable today than it was a decade ago. Seniority is the only thing to fall back on.