US Pilots Labor Discussion

[aquagreen73s]

The NIC is gone, courtesy of the 9th. That is right out of the 9th no matter what they try to say. The Nic is gone.

Hmmm. You really are a slow learner, aren't you. Judge Silver seemed to say otherwise about the arbitration at the hearing on February 9th where she summarily rejected Seham's argument of what the 9th ruling meant. Not only Judge Silver, but Bob Siegel as well. Everyone seems to understand exactly what the 9th ruling means except the USAPA diehards. Keep whistling past the graveyard if you feel otherwise. You are the ones that have to live under LOA93, not us.

 

[Pi brat]

Another Classy East pilot response. Where's the contract?

USAPA = Still, no traction...

Classy? You have a goofy guy, from a goofy commercial as your avatar. You wouldn't know class if it hit you between the eyes.

There will be no contract until we stop fighting each other-something NEITHER SIDE is willing to at this points. STOP WHINING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[CactusPilot1]

I guess the brochure series was so popular, Airline Forums crashed or got a flat tire. :huh:

 

[BoeingBoy]

It was certainly limping along for awhile...

Jim

 

[CactusPilot1]

It was certainly limping along for awhile...

Jim

I guess they got the tire changed, Jim.

 

[N924PS]

I guess the brochure series was so popular, Airline Forums crashed or got a flat tire. :huh:

Maybe USAPA COMM is jamming to prevent excerpts from the brochure from being broadcast to the masses.

 

[OTTER574]

DFR II will not happen either - until there is a T/A. Till then the east has separate ops. Attrition will accelerate, any potential growth is east centric, the Nic continues to collect dust.

Until Kasher/Silver issue an unambiguous decision, separate ops is the status quo.

BTW I read the AOL brochure. They made some good points. Historic quotes by Cleary/Mowrey and the charts were instructive. Here's a couple of observations:

Who is AOL? When Cleary makes a video he is right there, front and center. Even ITT doesn't hide the identity of it's principal players. How about some names and pics to go along with the charts and rhetoric.

Although the brochure exhorts the east to accept the Nic, AOL appears to send some mixed signals. On page 29, in bold print, they state "Until the DOH objective is removed, unity will not be possible".

What exactly does that mean? If USAPA removes DOH and replaces it with LOS will AOL announce that a state of unity now exists? Does AOL represent themselves as the voice of the west? Are they an entity with which the east can negotiate with, compromise with, even at this late date?

Finally, the charts on page 13 and 14 are static snap shots, and pre-date the change to the retirement age. I would have liked to see some charts with a 10 year projection, you know - the chart which is mostly green in color.

AOL is not my cba..Thanks for reading the informative brochure btw... ....They're my legal team. usapa is my current cba and thanks to them and lee (unions cbl's can not trump federal law statements in front of the 9th/my union LMRDA rights) seham, carved in stone the NIC in any future contract with LCC (TA) or any other airline for that matter.

My jacuzzi is hot and heading out for a dip...good night.

Otter

 

[CactusPilot1]

Maybe USAPA COMM is jamming to prevent excerpts from the brochure from being broadcast to the masses.

Great, just great. First it is the mail, now the internet. Time to buy some carrier pigeons. :blink:

 

[East Hole]

But CANNOT do so at the detriment of any other pilot group it represents, so as to favor the larger portion of the entire pilot group. A jury took LESS than 90 MINUTES to figure that out. You CANNOT change the collective bargaining agent and then pick & choose the tenets of the collective bargaining agreement you wish to abide by.

Everyone else gets this, except your group. You have been sold a bill of goods that will cause nothing but delay and the loss of MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in lost wages, time off and contract improvements. There will be no snap back. There will be no huge retro pay check. The window for a superior joint contract has gone the way of $1.99 regular unleaded.

USAPA & USAPA supporters are the pariahs of the commercial aviation industry.


USAPA = 3 years old this month, and still acting like it!

This delay has already given me weekends off and a summer vacation. Thats worth a couple grand a year after taxes that Kirby would have given me. My choices are so simple right now. Please give us back our flying the west took just to keep u guys working. I think u guys owe us.

 

[BoeingBoy]

My choices are so simple right now.

Simple choices for simple minds?

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

A "National Security Risk" says USAPA and 4 Months Without a Word to the Pilots

Quick Fact #143: On November 30, 2010, Mike Cleary Sends a letter to the TSA and FBI claiming a "National Security Risk". The "risk" was the alleged compromise of sensitive information - information about us - our personal information. Cleary and USAPA don't bother telling the pilots about the "risk" until a full 4 months later. Further, we are told of our "risk" on the same day that USAPA buries the Report on The Assault of Rob Streble by Randy Mowrey. The good union pilots focus on the news that's already at least 4 months old and forget about the assault that took place in our union offices against one of our union officers.

See Story

 

[Metroyet]

A "National Security Risk" says USAPA and 4 Months Without a Word to the Pilots

Quick Fact #143: On November 30, 2010, Mike Cleary Sends a letter to the TSA and FBI claiming a "National Security Risk". The "risk" was the alleged compromise of sensitive information - information about us - our personal information. Cleary and USAPA don't bother telling the pilots about the "risk" until a full 4 months later. Further, we are told of our "risk" on the same day that USAPA buries the Report on The Assault of Rob Streble by Randy Mowrey. The good union pilots focus on the news that's already at least 4 months old and forget about the assault that took place in our union offices against one of our union officers.

See Story

I can't wait for the "real housewives of Scabopolis" TV series. If the endless 6th grade drama and the obvious lack of progress are any indication, I'd say that your "union" plans on ensuring your place at the bottom of every measurable metric. It's only costing hundreds of millions of dollars. Well done, Great investment EastHoles!!!!

 

[Code Name V]

I agree with you. The Nic is gone. But there is plenty of ammo for DFR II if DOH ends up in section 22. Benefiting the majority at the expense of the minority and all that.

We can't negotiate with ourselves, so USAPA needs to make the first move. There is no entity to haggle with at this point.
Move off DOH. Get a contract sooner. Undermine the success of any future DFR, Q.E.D.

If Kasher comes in we get some of our pay reinstated, but the rest of the contract is still garbage.

Actually USAPA really cannot come off DOH even if they wanted to (which they don't and won't). If they did, they would be subject to the same DFR from the entire east side. You suggest that USAPA needs to make the first move? Why. Instead of all the time and money that the west is spending trying to convince the east, they would be better off spending the effort accepting DOH and working on improving the C&Rs if they can be altered to 'again' benefit the west even more than they already do. Further, regardless of the methedology, even if it were to magically be put together today, it would not further a contract one second so where is the incentive for either party to move off their stance? From my perspective flying with a wide range of pilots both domestically and internationally, there has been virtually no change of heart from the east, regardless of what some of the east traitors that post on these boards want you to believe.

I don't know why I even waste time posting to these suggestions anyway as we all know where this is headed and with the exception of the historical self serving pilots who never understood mutual support, this will never float and a spit up has been imminent for some time now. There is no possibility of these two groups ever flying together. If the FAA ever got their hands on this board, it would be crystal clear why it would be the most dangerous merger in history. It's never gonna happen and all the 'wishes' of bad will of one group upon the other is irrelevant.

V

 

[Pi brat]

Great, just great. First it is the mail, now the internet. Time to buy some carrier pigeons. :blink:

The would need hazard pay, feed!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Actually USAPA really cannot come off DOH even if they wanted to (which they don't and won't). If they did, they would be subject to the same DFR from the entire east side. You suggest that USAPA needs to make the first move? Why. Instead of all the time and money that the west is spending trying to convince the east, they would be better off spending the effort accepting DOH and working on improving the C&Rs if they can be altered to 'again' benefit the west even more than they already do. Further, regardless of the methedology, even if it were to magically be put together today, it would not further a contract one second so where is the incentive for either party to move off their stance? From my perspective flying with a wide range of pilots both domestically and internationally, there has been virtually no change of heart from the east, regardless of what some of the east traitors that post on these boards want you to believe.

I don't know why I even waste time posting to these suggestions anyway as we all know where this is headed and with the exception of the historical self serving pilots who never understood mutual support, this will never float and a spit up has been imminent for some time now. There is no possibility of these two groups ever flying together. If the FAA ever got their hands on this board, it would be crystal clear why it would be the most dangerous merger in history. It's never gonna happen and all the 'wishes' of bad will of one group upon the other is irrelevant.

V

I don't know if you are ex Piedmont or USAir. But if you are the former then I'm pretty sure that DOH was no where near acceptable to you back in 1988. Many ex Piedmont are still smarting from that merger. Back then the mantra was relative position. I believe the Republic/Frontier arbitration award recently released was the first under the auspices of McCaskill-Bond. Check out the disparities in DOH within that merged list. A change to the USAPA position on DOH would need to be done in accordance with the C&BL's. My impression from flying with a wide range of pilots is that they are resigned to stalemate, hoping for good news from Kasher. If you were working continuously for a company, would you be okay with a furloughee coming in above you on a merged list simply because he/she had an earlier date of hire? Furlough is tough, but many went to other airlines and stayed, some left the industry altogether, very few had any realistic expectations of returning and very few that left ever looked back.

You don't really think the FAA is waiting for a tentative agreement to put the kabash on single operations do you? They would have advised the company by now that east/west cockpits ain't goin to happen.

Those of us who ask hard questions aren't traitors. I was sending money to USAPA before they began collecting dues. Apathy and blind obedience does not constitute mutual support

Finally, I think that the more support from the PHX contingent we can get, the faster we will secure a contract. There actually are F/O's on the east list who would benefit more from a better contract than a DOH list.