US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

BS

The westie above me on the Nic has 5 years less tenure.

Some of your assumptions are based on a static widebody fleet, no merger, no growth scenario.

Flying all night to RIO and all night back, with 6 hours over the Amazon, to stay in a slum.....lets just say I'm getting too old for that.

I will wait for developments. But if we get torpedoed by Silver or Kasher, USAPA's captain and crew better be ready to go down with the ship.

 

[A320 Driver]

Well I hate to tell you this: A lot of pilots that voted for USAPA as the lesser of two evils would vote the Nic in, if the rest of the contract was reasonable. Such a contract would pass by a slim margin.

If Kasher doesn't come in for the East, you will hear more pilots espouse this sentiment.

You forgot the "In my opinion". Because that is ALL it is...

Driver B)

 

[Black Swan]

BS

The westie above me on the Nic has 5 years less tenure.

Some of your assumptions are based on a static widebody fleet, no merger, no growth scenario.

Flying all night to RIO and all night back, with 6 hours over the Amazon, to stay in a slum.....lets just say I'm getting too old for that.

I will wait for developments. But if we get torpedoed by Silver or Kasher, USAPA's captain and crew better be ready to go down with the ship.

I think you have your numbers off, but I will check.Either way, 5 yrs at the lowest is not fair in my book and is a deal killer. As far as RIO? I am with you there. I am in PHL, so there are a lot of better choices. I know you commute from somewhere nice, and that is your choice. I am an imbedded insurgent in PHL, and drive easily. That is my lot, and makes it much easier. Not discounting your choice, just saying you made a different one than me. Mine, 76I short call 76 hrs doing what I want, where I want. I can easily live with it, and will. I have no reason to take the Nic, it is a poor choice when you take that piece of paper out, and do the math as they say. It just, doesn't add up for me. We are going to see a lot of movement up here. It is inevitable when you see the age of these guys. Cheers

 

[Black Swan]

BS

The westie above me on the Nic has 5 years less tenure.

Some of your assumptions are based on a static widebody fleet, no merger, no growth scenario.

Flying all night to RIO and all night back, with 6 hours over the Amazon, to stay in a slum.....lets just say I'm getting too old for that.

I will wait for developments. But if we get torpedoed by Silver or Kasher, USAPA's captain and crew better be ready to go down with the ship.

Between us, and I don't give a rats what they think about LOA 93 though if they had any sense they would want it. What will you do if Kasher comes in? The funniest thing about all of this is, and again, I really DO NOT CARE what the west thinks. The NIC is gone, courtesy of the 9th. That is right out of the 9th no matter what they try to say. The Nic is gone. So the re hashing is moot. Same with the judge and jury deal. Addington is erased. They trot that dead horse out every day. That horse is dead and gone. None of that Arizona Wake crap holds any water. If they don't know it yet, too bad.

 

[cactusboy53]

Funny how this is always an east issue. You are also giving a tidy donation, and will continue to do so. Your insistence on the Nic has cost your senior pilots serious money also.

Yea, it sucks to be REQUIRED to pay "union dues", and have to pay our legal firm as well. BTW, we have senior west pilots that are PLATINUM contributors (even though a joint contract arriving before they retire is slim at best). GREAT GUYS. They have INTEGRITY, and they are greatly appreciated. WE have not cost them the wage increase......the pilot group that REFUSES to abide by a final & binding seniority award is the group that started this little quest and keeps us all HOSTAGE.

Here's a contract riddle: A ten year west FO has a three day trip. Said FO is relieved of that trip for training purposes, and picks up another trip from another FO. How much an hour does that FO make when "double dipping"?

St. Happenin'......The Patron Saint of USAPA

 

[Piedmont1984]

Between us, and I don't give a rats what they think about LOA 93 though if they had any sense they would want it. What will you do if Kasher comes in? The funniest thing about all of this is, and again, I really DO NOT CARE what the west thinks. The NIC is gone, courtesy of the 9th. That is right out of the 9th no matter what they try to say. The Nic is gone. So the re hashing is moot.

I agree with you. The Nic is gone. But there is plenty of ammo for DFR II if DOH ends up in section 22. Benefiting the majority at the expense of the minority and all that.

We can't negotiate with ourselves, so USAPA needs to make the first move. There is no entity to haggle with at this point.
Move off DOH. Get a contract sooner. Undermine the success of any future DFR, Q.E.D.

If Kasher comes in we get some of our pay reinstated, but the rest of the contract is still garbage.

 

[Pi brat]

Yea, it sucks to be REQUIRED to pay "union dues", and have to pay our legal firm as well. BTW, we have senior west pilots that are PLATINUM contributors (even though a joint contract arriving before they retire is slim at best). GREAT GUYS. They have INTEGRITY, and they are greatly appreciated. WE have not cost them the wage increase......the pilot group that REFUSES to abide by a final & binding seniority award is the group that started this little quest and keeps us all HOSTAGE.

Here's a contract riddle: A ten year west FO has a three day trip. Said FO is relieved of that trip for training purposes, and picks up another trip from another FO. How much an hour does that FO make when "double dipping"?

St. Happenin'......The Patron Saint of USAPA

You guys leave me scratching my head sometimes. In the same post you say how things suck, and how great they are. Which is it?

 

[N924PS]

You forgot the "In my opinion". Because that is ALL it is...

Driver B)

I agree. As are your previous 1420 posts.

 

[cactusboy53]

You guys leave me scratching my head sometimes. In the same post you say how things suck, and how great they are. Which is it?

It SUCKS to have to pay USAPA dues money that they use against the West. It's GREAT to have senior West pilots contributing to the gold level and MUCH HIGHER as we strive to protect against USAPA. Need a program for this game, sport?

 

[luvn737s]

If seniority is truly negotiable, why not accept the Nic for a short term (say 2 years) and then renegotiate for a DOH seniority list after the integration. If you have the votes and the legal footing to do it, what's the risk?

If you don't then, maybe you don't now.

 

[OTTER574]

I agree with you. The Nic is gone. But there is plenty of ammo for DFR II if DOH ends up in section 22. Benefiting the majority at the expense of the minority and all that.

We can't negotiate with ourselves, so USAPA needs to make the first move. There is no entity to haggle with at this point.
Move off DOH. Get a contract sooner. Undermine the success of any future DFR, Q.E.D.

If Kasher comes in we get some of our pay reinstated, but the rest of the contract is still garbage.

Like I said..you guys are a laugh a minute.

Funny how Judge Silver brought up the NIC numerous times in her courtroom of late and stated how she is quite familiar with former proceedings called Addington against usapa and it's unripe DFR. Simple answer to you is the NIC is not gone, never was on trial and never will be. Joint contract with LCC implements the NIC via the TA. Judge Silver even asked council if the lcc DJ were to go trial....would importing Addington case expedite the new trial? 2 said yes, please by all means import all the pertinent information against usapa and 1 said no. Guess who said no?

Hope you get your snap back because things will definitely change and soon if you do...and I'm not saying very good for the east going forward with snap back wages...

BTW, I kinda like cleary. Best fundraiser out west we ever had...

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

It SUCKS to have to pay USAPA dues money that they use against the West. It's GREAT to have senior West pilots contributing to the gold level and MUCH HIGHER as we strive to protect against USAPA. Need a program for this game, sport?

[removed]

 

[Pi brat]

No, I got it-you're an ass and an idiot. Scooter.

Oops, did I say that? Just slipped out. Where's that delete key?

 

[Freebird]

No, I got it-you're an ass and an idiot. Scooter.

Oops, did I say that? Just slipped out. Where's that delete key?

Another Classy East pilot response. Where's the contract?

USAPA = Still, no traction...

 

[Piedmont1984]

Like I said..you guys are a laugh a minute.

Funny how Judge Silver brought up the NIC numerous times in her courtroom of late and stated how she is quite familiar with former proceedings called Addington against usapa and it's unripe DFR. Simple answer to you is the NIC is not gone, never was on trial and never will be. Joint contract with LCC implements the NIC via the TA. Judge Silver even asked council if the lcc DJ were to go trial....would importing Addington case expedite the new trial? 2 said yes, please by all means import all the pertinent information against usapa and 1 said no. Guess who said no?

Hope you get your snap back because things will definitely change and soon if you do...and I'm not saying very good for the east going forward with snap back wages...

BTW, I kinda like cleary. Best fundraiser out west we ever had...

Otter

DFR II will not happen either - until there is a T/A. Till then the east has separate ops. Attrition will accelerate, any potential growth is east centric, the Nic continues to collect dust.

Until Kasher/Silver issue an unambiguous decision, separate ops is the status quo.

BTW I read the AOL brochure. They made some good points. Historic quotes by Cleary/Mowrey and the charts were instructive. Here's a couple of observations:

Who is AOL? When Cleary makes a video he is right there, front and center. Even ITT doesn't hide the identity of it's principal players. How about some names and pics to go along with the charts and rhetoric.

Although the brochure exhorts the east to accept the Nic, AOL appears to send some mixed signals. On page 29, in bold print, they state "Until the DOH objective is removed, unity will not be possible".

What exactly does that mean? If USAPA removes DOH and replaces it with LOS will AOL announce that a state of unity now exists? Does AOL represent themselves as the voice of the west? Are they an entity with which the east can negotiate with, compromise with, even at this late date?

Finally, the charts on page 13 and 14 are static snap shots, and pre-date the change to the retirement age. I would have liked to see some charts with a 10 year projection, you know - the chart which is mostly green in color.