US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CactusPilot1]

Brochure 3, The 9th Circuit and DFRII

At this point, you are probably among many US Airways pilots who are wondering how
this situation could be possible in light of the Ninth Circuit's ruling that the West claims will not be ripe until there is a ratified contract. The issue preclusion conflict is just one scenario that illustrates why the "ripeness" decision of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals created more complications than it did to make things more clear. It is ironic that the decision which seemed to move DFR II further into the future actually accelerated it.
We filed the original Addington lawsuit before there was a ratified contract partly because we were concerned that the statute of limitations would expire had we waited for the completion of negotiations. Furthermore, the intention of USAPA to ignore the aroitrated list in what was surely a breach of DFR was obvious. Filing a claim after the statute of limitations has run prevents a plaintiff from litigating the claim regardless of the merits. The normal time limit to file a DFR lawsuit against a union is six months. In fact, Seham tried to argue that our claims in Addington were both too early and too late. Short of filing a cross-claim now, USAPA would certainly make the same meritless argument in DFR II.

We are certain of a few things at this time: If USAPA's lawyers were confident of victory in the declaratory lawsuit, then they would be "first in line" at the court house doors. Despite USAPA's pronouncements to the contrary, we suspect that the leadership does realize that they are not "free" to negotiate DOH in Section 22 of our collective bargaining agreement. This is why they seek to dismiss or delay the company's lawsuit. The last thing they want is for a court to declare "USAPA is currently violating its duty... by its continued insistence... upon an integrated seniority list other than as reflected in the Nicolau Award..." [US Airways Complaint for Declaratory Relief, pg. 22] Such a decision would directly negate the endless efforts by USAPA to convince its membership that the Ninth Circuit's decision explicitly allows them to ignore the Nicolau Award and negotiate a DOH list with the company.

 

[Black Swan]

Brochure 3, The 9th Circuit and DFRII

At this point, you are probably among many US Airways pilots who are wondering how
this situation could be possible in light of the Ninth Circuit's ruling that the West claims will not be ripe until there is a ratified contract. The issue preclusion conflict is just one scenario that illustrates why the "ripeness" decision of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals created more complications than it did to make things more clear. It is ironic that the decision which seemed to move DFR II further into the future actually accelerated it.
We filed the original Addington lawsuit before there was a ratified contract partly because we were concerned that the statute of limitations would expire had we waited for the completion of negotiations. Furthermore, the intention of USAPA to ignore the aroitrated list in what was surely a breach of DFR was obvious. Filing a claim after the statute of limitations has run prevents a plaintiff from litigating the claim regardless of the merits. The normal time limit to file a DFR lawsuit against a union is six months. In fact, Seham tried to argue that our claims in Addington were both too early and too late. Short of filing a cross-claim now, USAPA would certainly make the same meritless argument in DFR II.

We are certain of a few things at this time: If USAPA's lawyers were confident of victory in the declaratory lawsuit, then they would be "first in line" at the court house doors. Despite USAPA's pronouncements to the contrary, we suspect that the leadership does realize that they are not "free" to negotiate DOH in Section 22 of our collective bargaining agreement. This is why they seek to dismiss or delay the company's lawsuit. The last thing they want is for a court to declare "USAPA is currently violating its duty... by its continued insistence... upon an integrated seniority list other than as reflected in the Nicolau Award..." [US Airways Complaint for Declaratory Relief, pg. 22] Such a decision would directly negate the endless efforts by USAPA to convince its membership that the Ninth Circuit's decision explicitly allows them to ignore the Nicolau Award and negotiate a DOH list with the company.

Your statute of limitations argument is a specious one at best. Why did you even bother to be concerned with that issue when you had no grounds at all for damage until a ratified contract was passed? You filed on an issue that was not even a factor, no matter how concerned you were with expiration. There was not damage, yet. So you can't even file. This is the bottom line that is the most perplexing. Who even convinced you to spend 2 million when you had not been damaged? It is like filing an insurance claim for an accident that had not taken place, even if you were aware of a situation that would possibly lead to one. You just can't do it. This is why we are honestly not worried one bit about your DFR 2. You didn't even understand the first one. Your idea of damage is what Leonidas has convinced you of. I can assure you of this, I would wager a group of east pilots will file their own claim that Leonidas damaged them with not helping with pay parity. You will be fighting that one, no matter where it leads. So Leonidas is in hot water all around. They blew 2 million stupidly. No matter what you claim about limitations, we see right away Leonidas has a basic lack of understanding of the law and damage. They are in hot water for the mailer, and the impending lawsuits you will soon see. Then comes the pay harm later on. I say the entire matter goes away with the ruling coming soon. You will have no case against USAPA at all. My money is on Baptiste and Wilder. Bill Wilder called your defeat from the start. And he was correct.

 

[Black Swan]

Can you yell FIRE in a theatre before there is one?
Can you file an insurance claim before a loss?
Can you file a police report for a crime before it is committed?
Can you sue for damages before there are any?
The answer to all the above is NO. You should have known better.
If you personally didn't, your attorneys should have.

 

[767jetz]

Can you yell FIRE in a theatre before there is one?
Can you file an insurance claim before a loss?
Can you file a police report for a crime before it is committed?
Can you sue for damages before there are any?
The answer to all the above is NO. You should have known better.
If you personally didn't, your attorneys should have.

Hmmm...

Can you call for jail time, suspensions, and terminations before a crime is actually proven or an investigation is complete?

You guys are masters of "ready, FIRE, aim" (Cactus 18 for example.) What a bunch of hypocrites. BTW, it's the west's money to "stupidly blow" just like it's your money to stupidly waste sitting on LOA 93 for eternity, chasing the pot of DOH gold at the end of the rainbow. (Hint: rainbows are round. Getting dizzy yet? Round and round we go. )

 

[CactusPilot1]

The Impossible "Sell" To A Judge
Or Jury That DOH is Consistent
With USAPA's Duty To Fairly
Represent the West Pilots

Refer to link for charts and graphs: http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Leonidas_Booklet_Issue_3.pdf

Fig. 1 illustrates the Nicolau Award. To create this chart, the active East and West lists were placed on the same scale as the active pilots on the combined list. Lines were then drawn for certain pilots to their location on the NIC list. For example, Cleary's relative bidding position on the active and unmerged East seniority list was approximately 40%. On the NIC list, his relative seniority increased to 43%, a gain of 3%!

The furloughed pilots were placed below the most junior active pilot at time of the merger. East pilots gained a little; West pilots lost a little. The NIC includes almost 1800 additional jobs brought to the merger by the West pilots. Following the merger, an additional 700-plus furloughed East pilots rejoined the workforce. The end result was a "resolution tailor-made to the situation presented!" [US AIRWAVES, Jan/Feb/Mar 2002. Cleary - Mowrey]

 

[CactusPilot1]

I can assure you of this, I would wager a group of east pilots will file their own claim that Leonidas damaged them with not helping with pay parity. You will be fighting that one, no matter where it leads. So Leonidas is in hot water all around. They blew 2 million stupidly. No matter what you claim about limitations, we see right away Leonidas has a basic lack of understanding of the law and damage. They are in hot water for the mailer, and the impending lawsuits you will soon see. Then comes the pay harm later on. I say the entire matter goes away with the ruling coming soon. You will have no case against USAPA at all. My money is on Baptiste and Wilder. Bill Wilder called your defeat from the start. And he was correct.

I accept your wager, BS. You talk about blowing money. What harm has a Leonidas brochure caused? Did the mailbox keel over? Quite puzzling. If you want to blow $2 million, go ahead. Our money has been well spent since we managed to keep DOH off this property.

As far as pay parity is concerned, I'm all for it. Ratify a contract with the arbitrated list that your side agreed to honor in negotiations. The only seniority list the company has accepted, BTW.

It's that easy.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Your statute of limitations argument is a specious one at best.

In October, 2001, the APA revealed their unilaterally-conceived integrated seniority list with TWA. The seniority list became active in April, 2002, when APA took over from ALPA. The former TWA pilots filed a DFR suit against TWA, Llc, AA, APA, and ALPA less than six month later. A judge dismissed the DFR cases against TWA, AA, and APA due to expiration of the six-month statute of limitations. The appeal failed.

So there was a precedent that made it prudent for AOL to file when they did to preclude the possibility of statutory dismissal.

I'm so glad we have the Pulsinelli Shughart firm for legal advice instead of you.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Page 7, Brochure 3

What Are USAPA's Chances of Victory in the Next Trial?

In the Addington trial, the jury deliberated for less than two hours before reaching a unanimous decision that found USAPA guilty of breaching their Duty of Fair Representation (DFR). The jury was shown charts similar to Figs. 1 and 2. Another exhibit admitted into evidence was the Nicolau Award itself. During the seniority arbitration proceedings, which led to the Nicolau Award, the East proposed a set of Conditions and Restrictions (C&Rs) about which the arbitration panel stated:
"US Airways proposed restrictions, both as to aircraft and length, would unduiy deprive too many senior America West pilots of upgrade opportunities for too long a time, and would also put a number of active America West pilots below long-furloughed US Airways pilots who, until the merger, had little prospect of an early return." [Nicolau Award p. 27]
Whether or not one agrees with this finding by the arbitrator is immaterial from a legal perspective. The importance here is the deference that the justice system affords prior findings made by previous tribunals. From an objective standpoint, USAPA's C&Rs are more harsh for the West pilots when compared to the C&Rs previously rejected (See Fig. 5).
It is straightforward to prove again to a future judge or jury the case which the West made to the Addington jury: that DOH with (or without) C&Rs discriminates against the West and this intent to discriminate is supported by overwhelming evidence previously discovered in Addington.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Page 9, Brochure 3

USAPA's "Conditions & Restrictions" Are a Fraud

Leonidas previously published several DOH bar charts which illustrated that 100% of the East pilots gain, while 100% of the West pilots lose seniority under USAPA's scheme. As expected, USAPA's rebuttal was, "that's what the C&Rs are for!" This was stated as though USAPA had created a new solution for our seniority integration issue. However, USAPA's C&Rs were not a new idea and were mostly plagiarized from the East Merger Committee's DOH C&Rs. Originally created under ALPA, USAPA's C&Rs are merely a continuation of the integration method advanced by the East pilots during the arbitration hearings.

The East's original DOH with C&Rs were:
• Rejected by the West pilot group
• Rejected by the West Merger Committee
• Rejected by George Nicolau and two pilot neutrals

"US Airways proposed restrictions, both as to aircraft and length, would unduly deprive too many senior America West pilots of upgrade opportunities for too long a time, and would also put a number of active America West pilots below long-furloughed US Airways pilots who, until the merger, had little prospect of an early return," [Nicolau Awardpg 27.j
USAPA is merely repackaging the East's C&Rs claiming it protects West pilots. USAPA's "new and improved" C&Rs with DOH were:
• Rejected by the West pilot group
• Rejected by Judge Wake
• Unanimously rejected by a jury of nine in the Addington trial.
"Taking all of the conditions and restrictions into account, the Court finds that the terms of USAPA's seniority proposal are substantially less favorable
to West Pilots than the Nicolau Award. More importantly, USAPA's
proposal exposes the West Pilots to grave new economic perils." (Judge Wake, Findings of Facts - Doc 593, pg. 8]

What is the real truth about USAPA's DOH C&R's? After careful study of the C&R's and viewing the USAPA Merger Committee's video made over tv.'O years ago, it is clear that the C&Rs only confine West pilots to PHX or LAS regardless of how management decides to allocate flying at the New US Airways. The USAPA's Catastrophic Reduction Clause alone, when combined with DOH seniority, would result in the furlough of 80% of the West pilots - all of whom brought active jobs to this merger. This is unacceptable to the West and is just one of the reasons why we will continue to litigate for the implementation of the Nicolau Award for as long as it takes.

Fig. 5 summarizes provisions of the C&Rs included in both proposals. Arbitrator Nicolau rejected the East Merger Committee's C&Rs and Judge Wake rejected the USAPA Merger Committee's C&Rs. A jury also rejected the East C&R defense. West pilots will continue to reject Date-of-Hire, even with "Conditions & Restrictions."

 

[Black Swan]

Hmmm...

Can you call for jail time, suspensions, and terminations before a crime is actually proven or an investigation is complete?

You guys are masters of "ready, FIRE, aim" (Cactus 18 for example.) What a bunch of hypocrites. BTW, it's the west's money to "stupidly blow" just like it's your money to stupidly waste sitting on LOA 93 for eternity, chasing the pot of DOH gold at the end of the rainbow. (Hint: rainbows are round. Getting dizzy yet? Round and round we go. )

Yes you can. Happens all the time in the legal world. Do you think a person arrested on the suspicion of murder is free to walk after arraignment? Absolutely not if the DA can produce reasonable suspicion to hold a suspect. And that is exactly why the company put these three on admin. leave. There is enough evidence to make their case that something did happen, and there will be consequences pending. So USAPA and its' membership can call for whatever we want. Nobody is getting dizzy. Except the children who think identity breach is a small issue. Your west friends showed their legal hand early, and stupidly. That, was chasing a tail if I ever saw it. And then the idiots who were seeking the damages and asking "when is the damages trial??" That, was the funniest. Talk about tail chasing! That was classic. Watching the entire Addington case turn into a steaming pile of manure with Wake spinning around like a puppet and supposed outsiders urging the boys on into the swamp. Two million away! I think the westwives were asking a lot more questions about money spent than any Leonidas pamphlet reader. College is coming! The relentless pursuit of the unachievable Nicolau is leading the boys on a fools errand........

 

[Black Swan]

I accept your wager, BS. You talk about blowing money. What harm has a Leonidas brochure caused? Did the mailbox keel over? Quite puzzling. If you want to blow $2 million, go ahead. Our money has been well spent since we managed to keep DOH off this property.

As far as pay parity is concerned, I'm all for it. Ratify a contract with the arbitrated list that your side agreed to honor in negotiations. The only seniority list the company has accepted, BTW.

It's that easy.

Hey man, I like your pamphlets. Just get the addresses legally. Send away.

 

[Freebird]

Yes you can. Happens all the time in the legal world. Do you think a person arrested on the suspicion of murder is free to walk after arraignment? Absolutely not if the DA can produce reasonable suspicion to hold a suspect. And that is exactly why the company put these three on admin. leave. There is enough evidence to make their case that something did happen, and there will be consequences pending. So USAPA and its' membership can call for whatever we want. Nobody is getting dizzy. Except the children who think identity breach is a small issue. Your west friends showed their legal hand early, and stupidly. That, was chasing a tail if I ever saw it. And then the idiots who were seeking the damages and asking "when is the damages trial??" That, was the funniest. Talk about tail chasing! That was classic. Watching the entire Addington case turn into a steaming pile of manure with Wake spinning around like a puppet and supposed outsiders urging the boys on into the swamp. Two million away! I think the westwives were asking a lot more questions about money spent than any Leonidas pamphlet reader. College is coming! The relentless pursuit of the unachievable Nicolau is leading the boys on a fools errand........

Why doesnt USAPA just stick to getting a contract. This diversion is taking heat of the leadership from failing to produce.


USAPA = Wasn't me...

 

[CactusPilot1]

Hey man, I like your pamphlets. Just get the addresses legally. Send away.

I can't take credit for them. I did not see #3 until it was posted online.

 

[East Hole]

The Impossible "Sell" To A Judge
Or Jury That DOH is Consistent
With USAPA's Duty To Fairly
Represent the West Pilots

Refer to link for charts and graphs: http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Leonidas_Booklet_Issue_3.pdf

Fig. 1 illustrates the Nicolau Award. To create this chart, the active East and West lists were placed on the same scale as the active pilots on the combined list. Lines were then drawn for certain pilots to their location on the NIC list. For example, Cleary's relative bidding position on the active and unmerged East seniority list was approximately 40%. On the NIC list, his relative seniority increased to 43%, a gain of 3%!

The furloughed pilots were placed below the most junior active pilot at time of the merger. East pilots gained a little; West pilots lost a little. The NIC includes almost 1800 additional jobs brought to the merger by the West pilots. Following the merger, an additional 700-plus furloughed East pilots rejoined the workforce. The end result was a "resolution tailor-made to the situation presented!" [US AIRWAVES, Jan/Feb/Mar 2002. Cleary - Mowrey]

USAPA has to fairly represent the East pilots also...

 

[cactusboy53]

USAPA has to fairly represent the East pilots also...

But CANNOT do so at the detriment of any other pilot group it represents, so as to favor the larger portion of the entire pilot group. A jury took LESS than 90 MINUTES to figure that out. You CANNOT change the collective bargaining agent and then pick & choose the tenets of the collective bargaining agreement you wish to abide by.

Everyone else gets this, except your group. You have been sold a bill of goods that will cause nothing but delay and the loss of MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in lost wages, time off and contract improvements. There will be no snap back. There will be no huge retro pay check. The window for a superior joint contract has gone the way of $1.99 regular unleaded.

USAPA & USAPA supporters are the pariahs of the commercial aviation industry.


USAPA = 3 years old this month, and still acting like it!