US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Well, if anyone is tired of this and wants another flying job, there'll be pilots wanted adds up on the Virgin Galactic site Monday...

"Virgin Galactic is looking for a few good pilots—very good pilots—to fly paying customers to the edge of space and back in its SpaceShipTwo rocketplane."

Article

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

No one is trying to convince you that we know better. We're only trying to convince you that final and binding arbitration is just that, final and binding

Membership Ratification.

It's been 4 years, if you still can't grasp the Nic is a nonstarter ....... WE



LOA 93 forever blah blah blah

 

[Freighterguynow]

What part of "Binding" does the slow crowd NOT get?

The Ratification part.

 

[Zone5]

They're starting to get it. But, they're wasting their time because the decision is already out. Mr. Kasher mailed his decision to the Parker, the NMB and Cleary some months ago. Parker certainly seems happy based on his comments in the Crew News sessions (whatever he said about having no concern about the LOA93 issue and sleeping well at night.) Cleary on the other hand is acting like a crazy, what with screaming fire where there is none, bringing the founders of USAPA up on frivolous charges, calling the cops to have two PHX reps removed from an OPEN SESSION at the last BPR meeting. Things that gotta make you say hmmmm....what's Cleary hiding . . .

"Mr. Kasher mailed his decision to the Parker, the NMB and Cleary some months ago." I don't suppose you have been able to get a copy of that decision? I never have been a big "conspiracy" theory kind of guy. Too hard to keep that sort of thing on the "QT". Like they say, "when is a secret, not a secret?,......... when more than one person knows it!"

I don't quite follow your logic regarding the impact of a decision against USAPA on Cleary. He would be in a lot more trouble had he not promoted the grievance. Worst case scenario, we "lose" nothing we already haven't. Certainly no worse off, than we are now.

seajay

 

[Freighterguynow]

I guess you missed the recall of your own president Cleary and Mowery.

You know the saying about people in glass houses.

Further, even though the law and precedent have delivered a vindication of USAPA’s right to negotiate a Date of Hire Seniority List

In Short, Date of Hire will be the basis of any Section 22 proposal, so it is only right to begin the process of reconciliation and concerted negotiation for a better joint contract for all




Send in your donations ...

 

[Zone5]

So you actually believe that one year can go by without at least a draft opinion? It hasn't. Cleary knows which was this is going/has gone. He kicks up the dust by screaming fire where there is none, and you suckers go for it.

Got news for you: LOA93 is a loss, DOH is DOA (the company won't negotiate), separate ops yields virtually the same number of upgrades for both as through the Nic. You've conned the rest of the East to go along with a crusade that can't ever realize its goals. Now you're nearly four years into post-Nic and there is no end in sight for LOA93. Way to go. Moron.

I believe it. The wheels of "justice?" turn very slowly.

You seem to feel you have a remarkable ability to "foresee" the future! I think I will just wait for Judge Silver and Kasher to issue their written rulings. Until then, the current course we are all on, will stay pretty much the same. Barring some sort of "big picture" corporate transaction.

seajay

 

[CallawayGolf]

"Mr. Kasher mailed his decision to the Parker, the NMB and Cleary some months ago." I don't suppose you have been able to get a copy of that decision? I never have been a big "conspiracy" theory kind of guy. Too hard to keep that sort of thing on the "QT". Like they say, "when is a secret, not a secret?,......... when more than one person knows it!"

I don't quite follow your logic regarding the impact of a decision against USAPA on Cleary. He would be in a lot more trouble had he not promoted the grievance. Worst case scenario, we "lose" nothing we already haven't. Certainly no worse off, than we are now.

seajay

If nothing was lost how come $eham has gained so much by reaching into your pockets chasing a near-certain loser?

 

[Zone5]

If nothing was lost how come $eham has gained so much by reaching into your pockets chasing a near-certain loser?

Not money "lost", just the "cost" of doing business. Bottom line, the potential gain far exceeds the legal "cost" of the grievance. Don't know how you look, till you get your picture took. Not unlike spending a few bucks on a "PowerBall" ticket, .......you got to be in it, to win it! B)

seajay

 

[N924PS]

Not money "lost", just the "cost" of doing business. Bottom line, the potential gain far exceeds the legal "cost" of the grievance. Don't know how you look, till you get your picture took. Not unlike spending a few bucks on a "PowerBall" ticket, .......you got to be in it, to win it! B)

seajay

For any East Captain that has 10 years or less left until Age 65 retirement there is no gain, only loss.

Your "cost of doing business" has ensured that retirement will be under LOA93. Money and benefits that will never be recovered. Only those East pilots with more than 10 years remaining in their career have a slim chance of seeing any recovery.

Not a small coincidence that pilots that fit that description "lead" USAPA and negotiate your CBA.

"Say Cheese!"

 

[CallawayGolf]

Not money "lost", just the "cost" of doing business. Bottom line, the potential gain far exceeds the legal "cost" of the grievance. Don't know how you look, till you get your picture took. Not unlike spending a few bucks on a "PowerBall" ticket, .......you got to be in it, to win it! B)

seajay

By the look of things it would seem that investing in a PowerBall ticket would have been money well spent by comparison. At least with PowerBall you a 1/200,000,000 chance of hitting the jackpot.

 

[crazystnic]

No one is trying to convince you that we know better. We're only trying to convince you that final and binding arbitration is just that, final and binding, and that Parker has already officially accepted said arbitration. Once the court speaks and all the money is wasted you still won't be convinced but you will have to live with it.

******************

that's a lie, you guys get on here each and every day and tell us what we are missing out with your Nirvana..
and final and binding has nothing to do with us now. In fact Parker and Kirby have also said there is no agreement without a joint contract.. Remember that part?
there will be no joint contract with the NIC and even if we are forced to use the NIC there will be no peace here. In fact there won't be harmony for let's see. 15 years.

So good luck I think you need it.
your unreasonableness is what is costing this pilot group.

 

[nevergiveup]

I fail to see what you think is in question.

Do you understand that a union has a DFR to all its membership, not just the majority. Further, do you understand that a final and bindng arbitration was entered into between the east and West, and now usapa has a DFR obligation to all the pilots it wishes to represent to uphold the results of that arbitration?

Finally, Seeham is still milking millions because folks like you who already know the answere still ask the question.

result of final and binding = unimplemented list. Is USAPA required to keep it the way they received it? I think so. hmmm. Just like to stir you guys up! Eat more opossum!

 

[cactusboy53]

******************

that's a lie, you guys get on here each and every day and tell us what we are missing out with your Nirvana..
and final and binding has nothing to do with us now. In fact Parker and Kirby have also said there is no agreement without a joint contract.. Remember that part?
there will be no joint contract with the NIC and even if we are forced to use the NIC there will be no peace here. In fact there won't be harmony for let's see. 15 years.

So good luck I think you need it.
your unreasonableness is what is costing this pilot group.

Crazy;
It's not a lie. When we changed collective bargaining agents, the new agent was required to abide by all contracts, agreements & tenets of the former CBA. Try as they might, USAPA cannot simply pick and choose which tenets and sections they wish to uphold.

Cleary & Mowrey said it best: "No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts.." (US AIRWAVES June/July 2000). Further, the boys also stated the following: The only certainty in seniority integration is that the outcome is never certain...Each case presents its own facts and equities, and each requires a resolution tailor-made to the situation presented." (US AIRWAVES Jan/Feb/Mar 2002).

Here's a funny coincidence, that last quote mirrors the following: "that each case turns on its own facts; that the objective is to make the integration fair and equitable.." (Arbitrator George Nicolau; Nicolau Award pg. 19).

I know you are thinking about blocking your ears & eyes, and saying "la,la,la,la....I don't see you and can't hear you!", but stick with me.

Here's my prediction. The Nicolau seniority list will be the only seniority list. After YEARS and YEARS and YEARS of legal maneuvering, USAPA will finally run out of avenues to turn to. Lee Seham will have left for lush green money baring pastures of SWA Mechanics. Billions of lost wages, time off and other contract improvements will have left for LCC's & Parker's wallets. The senior east pilots will ultimately retire on bankruptcy wages, and be greeters at their local Walmart or Lowes. The junior east pilots will FOREVER be painted as the prima donna's of the commercial aviation industry. They will upgrade eventually, but west pilots that choose to fly out of PHL, CLT & DCA will have super seniority (when there is attrition), and jump right on over without having to touch a day of reserve. We will sit quietly in our left seat with a great attitude / disposition. When we ask you if you would like to join us for a beverage on the overnight.....you will stomp away, angry....as always.

Have a great evening.

 

[767one]

Thanks for the update and link. I have been feeling left out lately, as I never got a copy in the mail. :blink:

seajay

Seajay,

I though it was just me......I didn't get the latest glossy either. I was actually looking forward to it because the others we so ..........pretty.



Regards,

Bob

 

[767one]

For any East Captain that has 10 years or less left until Age 65 retirement there is no gain, only loss.

Your "cost of doing business" has ensured that retirement will be under LOA93. Money and benefits that will never be recovered. Only those East pilots with more than 10 years remaining in their career have a slim chance of seeing any recovery.

Not a small coincidence that pilots that fit that description "lead" USAPA and negotiate your CBA.

"Say Cheese!"

924ps,

I will be the first to retire under age 65 and I accept that I will continue to work under loa 93 until the end. At this point I see no reason to throw those junior to me under the bus .....again.

Regards,

Bob