US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Freebird]

Why don't you print out the decision is a cute little glossy mailer for us. It would be so cool for you to see the fireworks and its guaranteed that any FO anger would be funneled in a way that would be beneficial to the West... right?

Are you suggesting that USAPA would sanction a job action?


USAPA = Keeping your wages low.

 

[Pi brat]

See what I mean CP1?

 

[Pi brat]

Four years ago you could have had north of $160 an hour and right now you'd be negotiating a second contract.

You do not know that. That contract had to be ratified, and that was going to be an uphill climb, no matter what the rate. You cannot know when/if that would have happened. That's the reality. A lot of you guys are good at stating your theories as facts.

 

[Pi brat]

One, it's going to be a problem getting the decision out from under Cleary, Mowery and Parella. Two, there's nothing to be said other than what's already been said: you guys on the East have been sold a bill of goods. LOA93 is the most recent example. Four years ago you could have had north of $160 an hour and right now you'd be negotiating a second contract. Instead, a sizable chunk of the East pilots will spend their golden earning years on BK wages. That's the reality.

Oh, and what rate was offered at "north of $160"? My copy of the Kirby shows all but the 330 and 75 C/O south of that.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You do not know that. That contract had to be ratified, and that was going to be an uphill climb, no matter what the rate. You cannot know when/if that would have happened. That's the reality. A lot of you guys are good at stating your theories as facts.

The money is fact. Check Day 8 I think it was of Addington where Stephan was on the stand. As to why a joint contract wouldn't pass then, well . . . that's exactly why the East is known for being their own worst enemy. Like it or not, we're coming full circle and it's been a waste for all of us, some more than others. I see it and hear it from a lot of East captains jumpseating. They can care less about address-gate. It all comes down to the realization that they've been fighting an unwinnable war.

 

[Pi brat]

The money is fact. Check Day 8 I think it was of Addington where Stephan was on the stand. As to why a joint contract wouldn't pass then, well . . . that's exactly why the East is known for being their own worst enemy. Like it or not, we're coming full circle and it's been a waste for all of us, some more than others. I see it and hear it from a lot of East captains jumpseating. They can care less about address-gate. It all comes down to the realization that they've been fighting an unwinnable war.

So when a bad ole eastie says something you like, it's gospel, when you don't like it, it's trash? It's not a fact, period. To get whatever the rate available was, the contract had to be ratified, and that was not a given. That's a fact.

Mr. Kirby said in a CN that Stephen got it wrong. Kirby was and is what is on the table, right? Did you provide the facts for the latest brochure?

So what do those jumpseat riders say when you ask them what they are doing to end the "unwinnable war"?

 

[aquagreen73s]

So when a bad ole eastie says something you like, it's gospel, when you don't like it, it's trash? It's not a fact, period.

Check the transcrpts. Day 8 I think it was. It's the crux of what your man Stephan said.

Mr. Kirby said in a CN that Stephen got it wrong. Kirby was and is what is on the table, right?

Never heard that before. When and where did Kirby say that?

So what do those jumpseat riders say when you ask them what they are doing to end the "unwinnable war"?

The only thing that can be said is, "I told you so." But, there's no point in even saying that. What's going down is really a family feud internal to the East. There's been a lot of lying going on over there, and the realization is setting in that the lying has cost a lot of money. It's tragic to think of the numbers who got duped into USAPA's DOH and the money they've lost and will never recover, but what's so delicious is seeing the heat brought on the purveyors of the lies. You can only write blank checks for so long. USAPA has done a lot of check writing in the form of promises that were unattainable. I think the founders of USAPA and Cleary have known they were unattainable unless they could steamroll the West. THey had to take the West out early with frivolous legal filings and harassment. When the West didn't collapse, the liars had to keep reaching into the grab bag to keep the myth going. Now it appears the bag is empty. Nothing left now but the truth. LOA93 cometh.

 

[Metroyet]

Kim Jong Cleary's Traitor!!


How funny!!! This guy is just as delusional as Cleary. Firstly, the courts did not AT ALL vindicate USCABA's ability to negotiate a DOH seniority list. Pretty sure a Jury convicted them on that one...not to mention the DJ grinding away at a snails pace.

What orifice to Easties pull this stuff out of? Why is there such endemic inability to understand what's staring them in the face?

Also, this guys is smokin' crack if he thinks the West is going to vote to recall Cleary. Quite the opposite.

Damn I love watching the wheels fall off this two bit sham!!

 

[Pi brat]

Check the transcrpts. Day 8 I think it was. It's the crux of what your man Stephan said.

Never heard that before. When and where did Kirby say that?

The only thing that can be said is, "I told you so." But, there's no point in even saying that. What's going down is really a family feud internal to the East. There's been a lot of lying going on over there, and the realization is setting in that the lying has cost a lot of money. It's tragic to think of the numbers who got duped into USAPA's DOH and the money they've lost and will never recover, but what's so delicious is seeing the heat brought on the purveyors of the lies. You can only write blank checks for so long. USAPA has done a lot of check writing in the form of promises that were unattainable. I think the founders of USAPA and Cleary have known they were unattainable unless they could steamroll the West. THey had to take the West out early with frivolous legal filings and harassment. When the West didn't collapse, the liars had to keep reaching into the grab bag to keep the myth going. Now it appears the bag is empty. Nothing left now but the truth. LOA93 cometh.

I don't know when he said it, it was in a CN.

I'm glad you are enjoying the circus. Maybe you did write the brochure. Here is a quote:

"If the East contingent to the Joint Negotiating
Committee (JNC) had not walked out, “close out” negotiations would likely have
yielded a compromise around $162, which approximates the New Delta Air Lines
rate. East pilots have given up at least a 30% pay increase for nearly three years"

The author said "would likely", that's okay, his/her opinion, but then states "have", as in a fact.

Will you concede that prior to any pay increase the contract had to be ratified by each side? You brochure says that "Kirby" is unacceptable to the west. Another obstacle.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Wiill you concede that prior to any pay increase the contract had to be ratified by each side? You brochure says that "Kirby" is unacceptable to the west. Another obstacle.

Yes. Kirby was abominable for scope alone. The problem (mostly for Cleary) is that what was promised can and will not be delivered. Second, where we were at in May of 2007 is far ahead of where we're at today. The realization of the stupidity of USAPA to reopen all of the closed sections will be the next shoe to drop after LOA93. The damage inflicted on this pilots group by the purveyors of the DOH lie is unrecoverable. The problem is that for a lot of East pilots who listened to the purveyors of lies are the ones who will suffer the most. In this economy it's game over once 65 rolls around. $50k a year will be sorely missed. We're talking real money which will never be recovered. It's sickening.

 

[cactusboy53]

While USAPA communications & the Iron Compass keep screaming foul (think "Wolf! Wolf!"....hey...is that a coincidence or what?), your fair & unbiased news source ITT, presses on!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWQijTyim7k

 

[Pi brat]

Yes. Kirby was abominable for scope alone. The problem (mostly for Cleary) is that what was promised can and will not be delivered. Second, where we were at in May of 2007 is far ahead of where we're at today. The realization of the stupidity of USAPA to reopen all of the closed sections will be the next shoe to drop after LOA93. The damage inflicted on this pilots group by the purveyors of the DOH lie is unrecoverable. The problem is that for a lot of East pilots who listened to the purveyors of lies are the ones who will suffer the most. In this economy it's game over once 65 rolls around. $50k a year will be sorely missed. We're talking real money which will never be recovered. It's sickening.

You might be right on all of that. Thing is, it was and is, their choice. Maybe the tide is about to turn, but I don't see it. But I don't fly with or see too many senior guys these days, and I think that is who the brochure is aimed at-just get enough to join the west and turn the tide.

We'll see, but this stuff is water under the bridge and most people don't like to be told "Told you so". It would be good if we could put the past behind and move forward, I just don't see it at this time.

 

[Phoenix]

One, it's going to be a problem getting the decision out from under Cleary, Mowery and Parella. Two, there's nothing to be said other than what's already been said: you guys on the East have been sold a bill of goods. LOA93 is the most recent example. Four years ago you could have had north of $160 an hour and right now you'd be negotiating a second contract. Instead, a sizable chunk of the East pilots will spend their golden earning years on BK wages. That's the reality.

Well its a good thing you have a grasp of reality, but I am disappointed that you so easily give up on obtaining a copy of the decision for your next mailer. I had so much faith in the West's ingenuity. Oh, well. Send me whatever tidbits of truth you can. I am eager for more mailers since I am so starved... what with Chip being absent most of the time and all now its really thin on info over here.

 

[nic4us]

Kim Jong Cleary's Traitor!!


How funny!!! This guy is just as delusional as Cleary. Firstly, the courts did not AT ALL vindicate USCABA's ability to negotiate a DOH seniority list. Pretty sure a Jury convicted them on that one...not to mention the DJ grinding away at a snails pace.

What orifice to Easties pull this stuff out of? Why is there such endemic inability to understand what's staring them in the face?

Also, this guys is smokin' crack if he thinks the West is going to vote to recall Cleary. Quite the opposite.

Damn I love watching the wheels fall off this two bit sham!!

Metro,

they all have a complete lack of understanding as to what the 9th said, and/or the position they are in. Comes from listenig to the little lawyer for too long. James(I scabbed Continental to cost them money)Ray, gave the same type response to a reporter during CLT info picketing. The reporter basically said to him, isn't the reason for the delay because of the legal trouble you folks keep bringing on yourselves by trying to renege on binding aritration? To which Ray responds, oh no that is all settled, even the Supreme court says so?????

I have quit trying to understand why or how they could all be so out of touch with the realities of their situation. This Cambell guy is way senior, if he is the Cambell that is #70 on the Nic. If he where the Cambell that is #544 on the Nic, he would actually be a west pilot who was formerly #11 and had 517+16 put in front of him and lost huge in the relative seniority aspect, but I digress. The point is he is just another self aggrandizing usapa idiot, who thinks anybody actually cares who/what/when/where is usapa president, or even if there is a usapa for that matter.

 

[crazystnic]

Yes. Kirby was abominable for scope alone. The problem (mostly for Cleary) is that what was promised can and will not be delivered. Second, where we were at in May of 2007 is far ahead of where we're at today. The realization of the stupidity of USAPA to reopen all of the closed sections will be the next shoe to drop after LOA93. The damage inflicted on this pilots group by the purveyors of the DOH lie is unrecoverable. The problem is that for a lot of East pilots who listened to the purveyors of lies are the ones who will suffer the most. In this economy it's game over once 65 rolls around. $50k a year will be sorely missed. We're talking real money which will never be recovered. It's sickening.


****************************************

I would take a pay cut before accepting the NIC and the CAPT I flew with said the same, in fact he was the one who brought it up.