US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

As usual my forum name says it all. Look, as far as the AWA pilots are concerned, I have no problem with AOL sending me literature. I really do want to hear your side of this whole seniority integration debacle. What I do have a problem with is that a company representative gave out a list of addresses with my ssn imbedded in it. Come on, that is just wrong. The company representative who did it should be fired. Other than that who cares, read the brochure don't read the brochure treat it as any other junk mail you receive.

I congratulate you - that's a very healthy way to look at this whole mess.

Jim

 

[e28]

So in essence no damages till you send a note to AOL and they receive it - better spring for something besides a stamp. It seems that your "the mailing is $, save them for $$" doesn't hold a lot of water. No "take me off your list" = no damages it seems.

So to recap - "they stole my information"....."well, it's harassment or invasion of privacy even if they didn't steal anything"...."save those copies to increase the damages"....."if I send a request for AOL to stop sending me things there may be damages if they don't stop".

To note, I still don't see that just mailing an informative (or spinning, your preference) brochure violates any laws or leads to any damages that I can find reference to.

Of course, we're supposedly getting one side of the story - the lawyers (if indeed there is a lawyer). Nobody here knows what tale of woe you told the lawyer. Probably "I'm being harassed because my personal data was stolen"...

Jim

Jim...

No wonder you did so well at ALPA...

None of my discussion today changes anything regarding Invasion of Privacy laws wherein an unauthorized West pilot accessed the company d-base and "took" 3000 East pilots personal information for the purposes of political tactics by another group of company employees. This action is not what we're discussing today. The improper "gathering" of said data is still on the table...from a legal perspective. The FBI investigation (which I have stopped discussing) is ongoing. What my question was to these lawyers revolved around the mailings/continued mailings form the recipients of my data.

Hey, I've been tellin' ya all day, this is just one facet of what may befall AOL if they continue in his course. Mailer #4 may be a VERY expensive one for AOL...has nothing to do with Invasion charges/Harassment charges...or the more serious charges that may arise from the FBI.

 

[prechilill]

As usual my forum name says it all. Look, as far as the AWA pilots are concerned, I have no problem with AOL sending me literature. I really do want to hear your side of this whole seniority integration debacle. What I do have a problem with is that a company representative gave out a list of addresses with my ssn imbedded in it. Come on, that is just wrong. The company representative who did it should be fired. Other than that who cares, read the brochure don't read the brochure treat it as any other junk mail you receive.

I do not know what is worse, the East pilots trying to make a bigger thing out of this than it really is or the West pilots trying to down play that having a company representative release personal company info is nothing.

Sad

My thoughts exactly. If LCC were a small business they would be shut down, or at least fined severely for this (and previous violations). Big business gets away with so much...I'm sure a call to ol' Senator McCain will take care of all this mess for Parker

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim...

No wonder you did so well at ALPA...

Heck - ALPA has nothing to do with it. A little research and common sense helps though.

Do whatever you feel you have to. I've just got an idea it will produce as much as the RICO suit - naught. Much ado about nothing - the typical East response.

As Sad said - it's just a piece of mail. Read it or throw it in the recycle bin. It's certainly not worth getting worked up over. And let the FBI or whoever handle any criminal charges and the company handle any policy infractions.

BTW, do you wonder what personal info the company gave to LifeLock? I suspect at least name and old US employee #. Is everyone at LifeLock trustworthy?

Jim

 

[e28]

For the record...I wouldn't really care if I got something from AOL. I might even read it. For the good of the airline as a whole, some dynamic has to change...but clandestine and covert ops by the West?

Getting a stooge to (steal) "obtain without permission" my stuff?

Bad move. I expect to not get another one, and I expect that USAPA has or is composing "stop" letter as we speak.

I have a lawyer ready to pull the trigger.

 

[e28]

Heck - ALPA has nothing to do with it. A little research and common sense helps though.

Do whatever you feel you have to. I've just got an idea it will produce as much as the RICO suit - naught. Much ado about nothing - the typical East response.

BTW, do you wonder what personal info the company gave to LifeLock? I suspect at least name and old US employee #. Is everyone at LifeLock trustworthy?

Jim

Another misdirect Jim?

I think you should look back over the last two days and count how many times you alone have tried to misdirect the conversation...not counting all your buddies.

I'm not even going to comment on your LifeLock rabbit. You should know that it makes you look like a fool.

 

[BoeingBoy]

but clandstine and covert ops by the West?

Getting a stooge to "steal" "obtain without permission" my stuff?

Answer this - does the ass't chief pilot have access to your name, address, phone #, whatever - granted by the company since they programed what he could access in CATCREW with his sine-in? Yes or no?

That should cover the "clandestine and covert ops" as well as the "getting a stooge to steal"

Like I said, the FBI or whoever can handle any illegal activity and the company can handle any breaking of company policy. As I sit here you have absolutely nothing on AOL - they merely requested an address list and it was given to them by "management" (and I stipulate that an ass't CP is about as low a level of management as there is).

For what it's worth, i'd bet that the check airmen have access to at least your name, address, and phone number as well as training records.

Jim

 

[e28]

Answer this - does the ass't chief pilot have access to your name, address, phone #, whatever - granted by the company since they programed what he could access in CATCREW with his sine-in? Yes or no?

That should cover the "clandestine and covert ops" as well as the "getting a stooge to steal"

Like I said, the FBI or whoever can handle any illegal activity and the company can handle any breaking of company policy. As I sit here you have absolutely nothing on AOL - they merely requested an address list and it was given to them by "management" (and I stipulate that an ass't CP is about as low a level of management as there is).

For what it's worth, i'd bet that the check airmen have access to at least your name, address, and phone number as well as training records.

Jim

No, you are quite right about the ACP in PHX.

Thats why I challenged AOL to obtain the SAME list from PHL/CLT/HQ.....won't happen.

I don't have to explain why...do I?

I said a few days ago that AOL is throwing this idiot under the bus...because the company isn't going to eat this....and this dolt sacrificed himself for AOL...who is also going to keep him at arms length...as a self-protection move.
He may roll on AOL, or not.
Either way, this behavior will stop....or become so expensive to AOL to be unjustified.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Another misdirect Jim?

I think you should look back over the last two days and count how many times you alone have tried to misdirect the conversation...not counting all your buddies.

It's hard to keep up with the twists and turn in your story. Lifelock? It's pretty obvious that US gave them enough information to verify eligibility for the free subscription. US didn't realize that partial SS# were in the data given to AOL for how long? Wonder what info was given to LifeLock without the company knowing what else was in that file? Yet you're running around in circles about a few brochures but lackadaisical about what info might have been inadvertently released.

You can chase your tail in circles all you want - I'll just sit back and laugh...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thats why I challenged AOL to obtain the SAME list from PHL/CLT/HQ.....won't happen.

I don't have to explain why...do I?

I said a few days ago that AOL is throwing this idiot under the bus...because the company isn't going to eat this....and this dolt sacrificed himself for AOL...who is also going to keep him at arms length...as a self-protection move.
He may roll on AOL, or not.
Either way, this behavior will stop....or become so expensive to AOL to be unjustified.

Wonder if the ass't chief would have given AOL the file if he know partial SS# were in it?

My guess is that AOL will incur little to no expense over this (other than the cost of producing/mailing the brochures). Keep that eternal hope alive though - it's good entertainment...

BTW - the "idiot" threw himself under the bus by releasing the info (though I doubt that will happen, more like a slap on the wrist). And of course HR, etc wouldn't give out that list now, after all the brouhaha. They probably wouldn't give it to USAPA without checking with higher ups.

To me the better question is this - would the CLT or PHL chief pilot give info about any pilot to Cleary if he called asking for a phone number or address? As I've already said, I got both emails and regular mail from the group that founded USAPA - how did they get either of my addresses. One thing for sure, though, I certainly didn't go off the deep end over it.

Jim

 

[e28]

Wonder if the ass't chief would have given AOL the file if he know partial SS# were in it?

My guess is that AOL will incur little to no expense over this (other than the cost of producing/mailing the brochures). Keep that eternal hope alive though - it's good entertainment...

BTW - the "idiot" threw himself under the bus (though I doubt that will happen, more like a slap on the wrist). And of course HR, etc wouldn't give out that list now, after all the brouhaha.

To me the better question is this - would the CLT or PHL chief pilot give info about any pilot to Cleary if he called asking for a phone number or address? As I've already said, I got both emails and regular mail from the group that founded USAPA - how did they get either of my addresses. One thing for sure, though, I certainly didn't go off the deep end over it.

Jim

Rookie mistake Jim...

Of course Cleary can get anything...he represents the NMB certified collective bargaining agent for USAirways pilots....he even knows how much CactusPilot1 makes per year....


Thats a far cry from what the "Army of Leonidas" has done. Tell me, exactly what legal standing do they have as it relates to the NMB....present litigation aside?

 

[cleardirect]

No, you are quite right about the ACP in PHX.

Thats why I challenged AOL to obtain the SAME list from PHL/CLT/HQ.....won't happen.

I don't have to explain why...do I?

I said a few days ago that AOL is throwing this idiot under the bus...because the company isn't going to eat this....and this dolt sacrificed himself for AOL...who is also going to keep him at arms length...as a self-protection move.
He may roll on AOL, or not.
Either way, this behavior will stop....or become so expensive to AOL to be unjustified.

How about this. You go to the east CP of your choice and ask for a west seniority list. See what you get.

Someone at one time posted on here I believe an sortable excel spreadsheet with names DOB and DOH. Should the FBI be knocking his door down?

I asked before. What exactly did you tell the lawyer. What did AOL receive? Exactly what?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thats a far cry from what the "Army of Leonidas" has done. Tell me, exactly what legal standing do they have as it relates to the NMB....present litigation aside?

For NMB purposes, no legal standing. I think that's pretty clear to any pilot here. Are you saying that USAPA has an absolute right to any information about a pilot it wants? AOL apparently didn't ask for SS#, does USAPA have a right to anything that may be in a file or are there limits? If you read what you quoted again, I think you will see that's what I asked - Cleary asks for name and address, does he have the right to anything that may be in the same file?

What, as far as we know now, has AOL done? Nothing but ask for an address list which was apparently freely given and send a few brochures. It's you easties (with some exceptions) that are throwing out "theft", "stole", "conspiracy", "harassment", etc

Jim

 

[e28]

For NMB purposes, no legal standing. I think that's pretty clear to any pilot here. Are you saying that USAPA has an absolute right to any information about a pilot it wants? AOL apparently didn't ask for SS#, does USAPA have a right to ask for anything it may want or are there limits?

What, as far as we know now, has AOL done? Nothing but ask for an address list which was apparently freely given and send a few brochures. It's you easties (with some exceptions) that are throwing out "theft", "stole", "conspiracy", "harassment", etc

Jim

Putting a lot of faith in one guy...no?

There are scenario's where AOL is in this up to their tits. Just depends how things go.

 

[BoeingBoy]

There are scenario's where AOL is in this up to their tits. Just depends how things go.

Nope, just the facts as presently known...

You mean you hope AOL is in this up to their XXXs. Scenario's are a different animal than facts. And that's really what it comes to - you hope the facts match one of your scenario's and I suspect they won't. One thing for sure,though - anything said here won't change the facts.

Like I said, keep that hope alive, keep coming up with those scenario's - it's entertaining...

Jim