US Pilots Labor Discussion

[e28]

I'll put this gently...the term "C&D" came from one of the lawyers. All that is required is a letter (could be 3000 individual ones...or just one on behalf of the union of pilots affected) formally telling AOL to stop mailing material to them.
No judge required.

If material is delivered with a post date subsequent to the formal notification date...it establishes a higher level of "harm". ($)

Nic4us and a few others suggested this is a solution. It is, (going forward) but only to the extent that if it is ignored, bigger problems for AOL will follow.

Excuse me while I watch Fox cover data information breach...apparently they think it's pretty important too.

 

[mrbreeze]

I'll put this gently...the term "C&D" came from one of the lawyers. All that is required is a letter (could be 3000 individual ones...or just one on behalf of the union of pilots affected) formally telling AOL to stop mailing material to them.
No judge required.

If material is delivered with a post date subsequent to the formal notification date...it establishes a higher level of "harm". ($)

Nic4us and a few others suggested this is a solution. It is, (going forward) but only to the extent that if it is ignored, bigger problems for AOL will follow.

Excuse me while I watch Fox cover data information breach...apparently they think it's pretty important too.

e,

That was my thoughts all along....send in the "stop mail" request and increase the ammo for the lawsuit.

 

[luvthe9]

e,

That was my thoughts all along....send in the "stop mail" request and increase the ammo for the lawsuit.

We need to let them send them and send often. That way, they have to "KEEP THE DONATIONS COMING!"

 

[CallawayGolf]

I'll put this gently...the term "C&D" came from one of the lawyers. All that is required is a letter (could be 3000 individual ones...or just one on behalf of the union of pilots affected) formally telling AOL to stop mailing material to them.
No judge required.

Can you have this "lawyer" send the Feds a C&D order to stop taking FICA, Medicare, and Federal Taxes out of everyone's paycheck? I feel their actions are 1) illegal/unconstitutional, 2) an invasion of privacy, 3) harassment, 4) criminal. Surely one of those fancy pro bono lawyers can generate a C&D letter that will immediately stop all of this criminal activity at the Federal level.

 

[BoeingBoy]

e,

That was my thoughts all along....send in the "stop mail" request and increase the ammo for the lawsuit.

As far as I know, it's not against the law to ignore a C&D (as e puts it, AKA cease & desist) concerning a piece or 4 of mail. Now if the mailing amounts to illegal harassment, that's a different story but illegal harassment requires more than just not wanting to get a mailing.

Just to note, a C&D issued by a judge is also a different story, but you have to convince the judge that you have a valid reason for wanting certain mail stopped, and again just not wanting it isn't enough.

It's up to you all - it's your money - but I'd wait till I knew a law was being broken before going "full speed ahead" into an iceberg...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

I'll put this gently...the term "C&D" came from one of the lawyers. All that is required is a letter (could be 3000 individual ones...or just one on behalf of the union of pilots affected) formally telling AOL to stop mailing material to them.
No judge required.

If material is delivered with a post date subsequent to the formal notification date...it establishes a higher level of "harm". ($)

Nic4us and a few others suggested this is a solution. It is, (going forward) but only to the extent that if it is ignored, bigger problems for AOL will follow.

Excuse me while I watch Fox cover data information breach...apparently they think it's pretty important too.

To clarify,

It is just my opinion that if you wrote or e-mailed AOL to exclude you from any future mailing list, that they would. So far, very few have done this, so everybody on their list minus those few, recieved the second mailer.

I also believe that it is not within usapa's rights to forward an all inclusive letter on behalf of their membership. (i.e. usapa can't say, never correspond to any of our membership again!!) Perhaps a letter from usapa saying that on behalf of the following members (then a list of all names wishing to be removed from AOL's list, after compileing a list with the associated peoples signatures) would be okay. But, a blanket statement from usapa saying stop or else, would land usapa in very hot water, and probably do nothing but entice AOL to send more, and test the or else waters, knowing they would have usapa by the short hairs for violating LMRDA membership rights.

 

[Sadstateofaffairs]

As usual my forum name says it all. Look, as far as the AWA pilots are concerned, I have no problem with AOL sending me literature. I really do want to hear your side of this whole seniority integration debacle. What I do have a problem with is that a company representative gave out a list of addresses with my ssn imbedded in it. Come on, that is just wrong. The company representative who did it should be fired. Other than that who cares, read the brochure don't read the brochure treat it as any other junk mail you receive.

I do not know what is worse, the East pilots trying to make a bigger thing out of this than it really is or the West pilots trying to down play that having a company representative release personal company info is nothing.

Sad

 

[cleardirect]

I'll put this gently...the term "C&D" came from one of the lawyers. All that is required is a letter (could be 3000 individual ones...or just one on behalf of the union of pilots affected) formally telling AOL to stop mailing material to them.
No judge required.

If material is delivered with a post date subsequent to the formal notification date...it establishes a higher level of "harm". ($)

Nic4us and a few others suggested this is a solution. It is, (going forward) but only to the extent that if it is ignored, bigger problems for AOL will follow.

Excuse me while I watch Fox cover data information breach...apparently they think it's pretty important too.

Well heck. If a simple letter from a lawyer is all it takes. Tell you what.

I will have a lawyer send usapa a C&D letter to stop them from ignoring the Final and binding Nicolau award. We can put an end to this right now. Because after that the damages just increase. That is how you think it works right?

 

[nic4us]

e,

That was my thoughts all along....send in the "stop mail" request and increase the ammo for the lawsuit.

Then send in the stop mail request. Perhaps all you will find out is that you save AOL postage in any future mailing.

Smart folks like you will still be able to find ways to read any future AOL brochure somewhere in cyberspace.

PS. speaking of ammo for the lawsuit. usapa's failure to include agency fee payers from their mailing list when disemminating contractually related material, may be a violation of federal law. Another ooops..from the amatuer "we can get DOH with a cost neutral contract", "our primary goal of protecting our seniority" association.

 

[e28]

As far as I know, it's not against the law to ignore a C&D (as e puts it, AKA cease & desist) concerning a piece or 4 of mail. Now if the mailing amounts to illegal harassment, that's a different story but illegal harassment requires more than just not wanting to get a mailing.

Just to note, a C&D issued by a judge is also a different story, but you have to convince the judge that you have a valid reason for wanting certain mail stopped, and again just not wanting it isn't enough.

It's up to you all - it's your money - but I'd wait till I knew a law was being broken before going "full speed ahead" into an iceberg...

Jim

Quote from lawyer #2:

"For mail, there are removal demands where you demand that your name be removed from all of their lists and that it not be sold to anyone else. They'd have to violate that before any damages were available."

I guess it boils down to "feeling lucky" or not.

I'd have your legal guys think twice about this...but hey. it's a free world.

 

[cleardirect]

Quote from lawyer #2:

"For mail, there are removal demands where you demand that your name be removed from all of their lists and that it not be sold to anyone else. They'd have to violate that before any damages were available."

I guess it boils down to "feeling lucky" or not.

I'd have your legal guys think twice about this...but hey. it's a free world.

Now we are getting to the truth. A letter removing your name from the list is a Looooooong way from someone going to jail and the commission of a federal crime. I sure hope you did not spend more than a grand getting that advice. Maybe a little internet research would have yielded the same answer.

All that because you were offended at a pamphlet that showed up at your house and told your spouse what you were leaving on the table. Is that the real reason you are so upset? The wife or husband found out the truth?

 

[e28]

Now we are getting to the truth. A letter removing your name from the list is a Looooooong way from someone going to jail and the commission of a federal crime. I sure hope you did not spend more than a grand getting that advice. Maybe a little internet research would have yielded the same answer.

All that because you were offended at a pamphlet that showed up at your house and told your spouse what you were leaving on the table. Is that the real reason you are so upset? The wife or husband found out the truth?

We're talking about just the obtainng and mailing of literature here...(when I say obtaining, I mean outside of HR permission at USAirways...your PHX CP doesn't count in the big picture)

You'll note I have refrained from discussing the FBI investigation of data, possibly full data.

What I am "discussing" is AOL's idea of mailing #4.

Of course, you guys are free to do whatever you want re: #4...but I have all the information I need to hammer AOL if I get one more piece of mail from them/you.

 

[nic4us]

As usual my forum name says it all. Look, as far as the AWA pilots are concerned, I have no problem with AOL sending me literature. I really do want to hear your side of this whole seniority integration debacle. What I do have a problem with is that a company representative gave out a list of addresses with my ssn imbedded in it. Come on, that is just wrong. The company representative who did it should be fired. Other than that who cares, read the brochure don't read the brochure treat it as any other junk mail you receive.

I do not know what is worse, the East pilots trying to make a bigger thing out of this than it really is or the West pilots trying to down play that having a company representative release personal company info is nothing.

Sad

Sad,

I agree. However, all we know so far is that the info obtained only had the addresses and that the SS numbers were embedded, but likely not accessed.

What I foresee coming from all of this is a companywide training/info campaign, and a shoring up of security of employees personnel info. Which is probably long overdue, and a needed addition. Whether or not the individual should be fired, well there is some open interpretation of what his transgression actually was, so in the typical fashion of how things work around here, he will probably be the person they assign to teach the new "Corporate Privacy and You" class, coming to recurrent soon.

 

[Sadstateofaffairs]

Sad,

I agree. However, all we know so far is that the info obtained only had the addresses and that the SS numbers were embedded, but likely not accessed.

What I foresee coming from all of this is a companywide training/info campaign, and a shoring up of security of employees personnel info. Which is probably long overdue, and a needed addition. Whether or not the individual should be fired, well there is some open interpretation of what his transgression actually was, so in the typical fashion of how things work around here, he will probably be the person they assign to teach the new "Corporate Privacy and You" class, coming to recurrent soon.

That might be the worst punishment!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Quote from lawyer #2:

"For mail, there are removal demands where you demand that your name be removed from all of their lists and that it not be sold to anyone else. They'd have to violate that before any damages were available."

So in essence no damages till you send a note to AOL and they receive it - better spring for something besides a stamp. It seems that your "the mailing is $, save them for $$" doesn't hold a lot of water. No "take me off your list" = no damages it seems.

So to recap - "they stole my information"....."well, it's harassment or invasion of privacy even if they didn't steal anything"...."save those copies to increase the damages"....."if I send a request for AOL to stop sending me things there may be damages if they don't stop".

To note, I still don't see that just mailing an informative (or spinning, your preference) brochure violates any laws or leads to any damages that I can find reference to.

Of course, we're supposedly getting one side of the story - the lawyers (if indeed there is a lawyer). Nobody here knows what tale of woe you told the lawyer. Probably "I'm being harassed because my personal data was stolen"...

Jim