US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

Settle down, UAL-man!

This is the fact-finding phase...just sit tight.
:unsure:

Really??? That's what I've been saying, not you and your buddies.

You and your buddies are in the lynching phase... facts be damned!

Shoot first ask questions later. Just review the posts of Black Swan, luvthe9, sumadarson, and your own. Or are you retracting your convictions and now retreating to the "fact-finding" line? Have you actually found any facts yet? Or is it just speculation at this point? You certainly like to talk about "irrefutable facts" even though your still in the fact-finding phase, as you now say.

 

[e28]

Really??? That's what I've been saying, not you and your buddies.

You and your buddies are in the lynching phase... facts be damned!

Shoot first ask questions later. Just review the posts of Black Swan, luvthe9, sumadarson, and your own. Or are you retracting your convictions and now retreating to the "fact-finding" line? Have you actually found any facts yet? Or is it just speculation at this point? You certainly like to talk about "irrefutable facts" even though your still in the fact-finding phase, as you now say.

Nope...I'm not a lawyer. However, I've now talked (one was email) to two of them regarding this. Both have said essentially the same thing. Neither has said this wasn't an actionable case. They both said it was, and both said depending on the findings of the FBI...some very serious charges can be filed. As I've said all along, getting junk mail is no crime...the manner by which our information was (fill in the blank, stolen, leaked, breached, obtained) can certainly be actionable. It is your side that is focusing on the "junk mail" aspect of this: while I have been talking about the manner in which I am made vulnerable to it.
Big difference.
I acknowledged that lawyer #2 recommends a C&D go to AOL...that is not the only action we can take, but it IS the one that establishes a level of damages should these mailings continue.

Just "gellin" over the whole thing now...

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hmmm - I've got to go out and run some errands. Anyone want to look into the lawfulness of disregarding a "do not mail" request?

Jim

 

[nic4us]

If a law was broken, why haven't there been any arrests or legal charges filed?

Because the West is too mellow to go after the criminals at usapa, with the same zeal usapa persecutes the West.

Maybe if they start something over the mailings, the West will push for formal charges being filed against the association whose illegal DFR activity has been escalating into criminal activity in their DFR persuit.

 

[BoeingBoy]

As I've said all along, getting junk mail is no crime..

So your invasion of privacy and workplace harassment claims for the "offense" of mailing you something were bogus? And now you're back to the "crime" of "stealing" (whatever) your address is the primary concern? My, my, what a twisted web you weave...

Jim

 

[e28]

So your invasion of privacy and workplace harassment claims for the "offense" of mailing you something were bogus? And now you're back to the "crime" of "stealing" (whatever) your address is the primary concern? My, my, what a twisted web you weave...

Jim

On the contrary- thats exactly where the harm is...as I've been saying all along.
You guys talk about 200 lbs of junk mail every week, I talk about Kroger or Publix, or Wal-Mart not lifting my information from a work computer without anyones permission...even USAirways'.

Try to keep up. :unsure:

 

[767jetz]

Neither has said this wasn't an actionable case.

They also can't say it IS actionable, because of this...

depending on the findings of the FBI...

Thats a very big "depending." No findings, no action. I think we agree here.

some very serious charges can be filed

Again I agree based on the above. But we disagree on the probability of such findings materializing into actionable offenses.

It is your side that is focusing on the "junk mail" aspect of this: while I have been talking about the manner in which I am made vulnerable to it.

I disagree. I have said from the beginning that if a law was broken then I'd change my opinion,but until then there is due process and a person is innocent until proven guilty.

Just "gellin" over the whole thing now...

That's not what it sounds like when you say things like this:

dismisses the fact that they improperly obtained all our addresses from company computers without company permission.
And that very fact is where the crime has been committed.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Which is it? Are you waiting to see how the investigation pans out to see if to see IF "very serious charges can be filed"??? Or is it a "fact" that a crime has been committed. You are a walking contradiction, and unless you correct your statements, you are also lying.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Nope...I'm not a lawyer. However, I've now talked (one was email) to two of them regarding this. Both have said essentially the same thing. Neither has said this wasn't an actionable case. They both said it was, and both said depending on the findings of the FBI...some very serious charges can be filed. As I've said all along, getting junk mail is no crime...the manner by which our information was (fill in the blank, stolen, leaked, breached, obtained) can certainly be actionable. It is your side that is focusing on the "junk mail" aspect of this: while I have been talking about the manner in which I am made vulnerable to it.
Big difference.
I acknowledged that lawyer #2 recommends a C&D go to AOL...that is not the only action we can take, but it IS the one that establishes a level of damages should these mailings continue.

Just "gellin" over the whole thing now...

I hope those attorneys you are talking to have put you on a substantial retainer prior to engaging them on this fact-finding endeavor. We all know the track record of east pilots living up to their agreements, especially when things don’t go the way they want them to. Now, if you have a checkbook in hand and are willing to put down substantial funds on retainer, I’m sure there will be no shortage of lawyers willing to tell you whatever you want to hear, just so long as their hourly rate is paid in advance.

The east pilots are the lowest paid among their peers and yet give lawyers more money per pilot than any other group. Smart; very smart.

 

[e28]

So funny that this subject keeps revolving back to the union and the lack of a contract that includes the Nic...

Who'da thought that..?

PS: two of the attorney's are personal friends, the third is an aquiantance of theirs...

As a point of interest, one said he'd go at it pro-bono.

 

[BoeingBoy]

On the contrary- thats exactly where the harm is...as I've been saying all along.

You're confused - how can you claim harm if all the facts aren't in? How can you claim to be in the "fact-finding" phase if you already know laws have been broken?

Those lies are hard to keep track of aren't they...

Jim

 

[e28]

You're confused - how can you claim harm if all the facts aren't in? How can you claim to be in the "fact-finding" phase if you already know laws have been broken?

Those lies are hard to keep track of aren't they...

Jim

No...the level of harm is still in question (according to lawyer #2)
Specifically, should a C&D go out to AOL and they disregard it after being formally told to stop.

Option A = $

Option B = $$



Of course, we're not even discussing what the FBI may bring to the party...

 

[cleardirect]

Just heard from lawyer # 2...here's a snippet:

"The feds might go after these guys because of the way they got the information, not because of the volume (which is pretty small compared to most)."

In all fairness, he does suggest the union send a mass-mailing to AOL's PO Box demanding a C&D to address any future mailings...and if AOL defies that and sends #4?

BAM!
B)

East pilots need to contact USAPA immediately to get the C&D sent to AOL immediately in order to establish damages against AOL.

So now it is might.

How about this. Why don't you tell us exactly how and what information they got. You do know right. Because you told the lawyer a story. How is it that you know what happened but the FBI is still sorting it out?

Could you be another usapa shill that has some inside information? Or just a loud mouth making stuff up?

 

[cleardirect]

So funny that this subject keeps revolving back to the union and the lack of a contract that includes the Nic...

Who'da thought that..?

PS: two of the attorney's are personal friends, the third is an aquiantance of theirs...

As a point of interest, one said he'd go at it pro-bono.

Wow! pro-bono. That is quite a gift to take 10 minutes to write a C&D letter.

By what authority does some random lawyer have over anyone? A C&D letter unless it comes from a judge. Worthless!

 

[BoeingBoy]

No...the level of harm is still in question (according to lawyer #2)

So, based on what you've told him/her there is harm. So the question that automatically follows is what did you tell him/her? Your tale of woe that your personal info was stolen? That you feel threatened and fear for your family's safety because of a piece of mail?

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

Wow! pro-bono. That is quite a gift to take 10 minutes to write a C&D letter.

By what authority does some random lawyer have over anyone? A C&D letter unless it comes from a judge. Worthless!

On the other hand, perhaps US should write a C&D letter to AA, UA, DL, and WN telling them not to fly to our hubs anymore. Certainly those upstanding corporations would give a C&D letter it's due attention.