US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Freebird]

Not checking with a lawyer...checking in with 3 lawyers...already have one answer (you won't like it) but I'll wait for the others as well.
I'll certainly partake in the fund, but these 3 lawyers are mine personally.

Does "Chasing your tail" mean anything to you?


USAPA = Still no contract.

 

[Freebird]

They want us to send them a note(AOL) to pleez take us off a list they stole to stop getting their harassing mailers! PHL crewroom check it out!

Irrelevance.

Where's the 'promised' contract? The economic window is closing and USAPA is holding everyone back. You'd like a raise wouldnt you MM?

Is USAPA even capable of obtaining a raise? Time will tell...(How much time?)


USAPA = Chock Full'O Nuts

 

[e28]

Irrelevance.

Where's the 'promised' contract? The economic window is closing and USAPA is holding everyone back. You'd like a raise wouldnt you MM?


USAPA = Chock Full'O Nuts

Distraction

 

[luvthe9]

Questions from a lurker:

Has anyone actually been harmed by the release of the address list?

Does anyone know the law regarding this? Does someone have to have been actually harmed by improper release of this data for it to be considered a crime? Would criminal intent be a component of illegality of this?

I ask not to be provocative, but because I don't know the answers. I would assume that if there is no harm, there is no crime, but I'm by no means an authority in this area.

The usual jackwagon replies are not necessary; just informed answers please--

So if there is no harm, there is no crime? What if a person drives while intox. and makes it home OK. No harm, no crime? What if a person fires a gun in the air, the bullet lands in a field. No harm. No crime? The rule is the info was NOT allowed to be released. It was at least a violation of corp. ethics policy. Possibly a criminal infraction.



(Okay, maybe the jackwagon thing is a little provocative...)

 

[Freighterguynow]

Just guessing here, but I would think that if you told your lawyers that you recieved unsolicited harassing mail from a workplace organization, who stole your identity, they replied that you have a great case, and will win large sums.

Done.

Thanks for paying your fair share.

 

[nic4us]

Just heard from lawyer # 2...here's a snippet:

"The feds might go after these guys because of the way they got the information, not because of the volume (which is pretty small compared to most)."

In all fairness, he does suggest the union send a mass-mailing to AOL's PO Box demanding a C&D to address any future mailings...and if AOL defies that and sends #4?

BAM!
B)

East pilots need to contact USAPA immediately to get the C&D sent to AOL immediately in order to establish damages against AOL.

Go for it!!!

A cease and desist order from a union seeking to squelch first amendment rights of a competeing organization, and MIGS....priceless!!! Illegal, and priceless!!! Ever heard of the LMRDA? Or, the better question would be, your lawyer ever heard of the LMRDA?

Like I said, ask AOL to take your name off their list....they would likely comply with your request. Otherwise, you got nothing but a loser lawsuit that will get creamed by the counter-suit.

 

[767jetz]

Regardless of the effort put forth by the Westicles, they can't refute the facts.

And that very fact is where the crime has been committed.

Nothing but opinion and speculation on your part. When will you ever learn? Until you have REAL facts that add up to REAL charges that are backed up by REAL law enforcement, then your OPINIONS are most certainly refutable.

Where is the evidence of a crime? Are we to accept that a crime was committed simply because you or Cleary or anyone else with no legal authority in the matter says so? Your opinion is now considered irrefutable fact by default? I think not.

Where are the ACTUAL legal charges by ACTUAL authorities? What EXACTLY are those charges? Has anyone been arrested for a crime or even served papers to appear in court for a hearing on the matter? If your answer is that "it is still under investigation," or "the authorities are sorting it out," then there is no crime to speak of yet, and you are just blowing hot air hoping people will believe your opinions as fact.

Just like the trumped up charges against the Cactus 18, who were convicted by you and your kind before the REAL verdict was rendered, and who were subsequently cleared of all charges in the end, you are up to your same old tricks.

 

[e28]

Nothing but opinion and speculation on your part. When will you ever learn? Until you have REAL facts that add up to REAL charges that are backed up by REAL law enforcement, then your OPINIONS are most certainly refutable.

Where is the evidence of a crime? Are we to accept that a crime was committed simply because you or Cleary or anyone else with no legal authority in the matter says so? Your opinion is now considered irrefutable fact by default? I think not.

Where are the ACTUAL legal charges by ACTUAL authorities? What EXACTLY are those charges? Has anyone been arrested for a crime or even served papers to appear in court for a hearing on the matter? If your answer is that "it is still under investigation," or "the authorities are sorting it out," then there is no crime to speak of yet, and you are just blowing hot air hoping people will believe your opinions as fact.

Just like the trumped up charges against the Cactus 18, who were convicted by you and your kind before the REAL verdict was rendered, and who were subsequently cleared of all charges in the end, you are up to your same old tricks.

Settle down, UAL-man!

This is the fact-finding phase...just sit tight.
:unsure:

 

[Freebird]

Distraction

??? It's reality. USAPA has been a loser for every employee on property from day 1. The distraction here is USAPA's failure to face the facts presented in the mailer. The silence is deafening.

More distraction comes from USAPA avoiding their responsibily of representing all US Airways pilots in obtaining and industry leading contract. Where is it? USAPA's impotence has turned to witch hunts over percieved identity theft. There's your distraction. You can form all the committees and hire the outside lawyers you want, USAPA's job is to get a contract. Where is it?

The truth of the matter was neatly presented and mailed to you. Can you not handle it?


USAPA = Clicking their heels

 

[767jetz]

What is workplace harassment?
Workplace harassment is any unwelcome or unwanted conduct that denigrates or shows hostility or an aversion toward another person ...

A conduct is unwelcome if the employee did not solicit, instigate or provoke it, and the employee regarded the conduct as undesirable or offensive.

Hmmmmm...

Fighting and assault in the hallways of the union offices.

Police called to remove legally present union representatives.

USAPA obtaining the west mailing list and sending them unwanted and unsolicited garbage.

Plan on holding your buddies to the same standard? (I didn't think so.)

 

[e28]

The truth of the matter was neatly presented and mailed to you. Can you not handle it?

Didn't read it...I'm saving the second Vol 3 I just got for legal purposes...it's still sealed.

 

[767jetz]

You are the DRAMA QUEEN, if there ever was one... US Airways NEVER GAVE THEIR PERMISSION for these files to be taken... If they gave their permission, why have the three involved been removed?

What makes you think you have so much control over the world as to have to give permission to anything and everything? You are not that important or powerful. If no laws were broken then you are actually quite powerless, contrary to your personal delusions of grandeur.

If a law was broken, why haven't there been any arrests or legal charges filed?

 

[767jetz]

East pilots need to contact USAPA immediately to get the C&D sent to AOL immediately in order to establish damages against AOL.

Ahhhhh.... so the truth comes out. I knew you'd slip up and admit it eventually. So as suspected, and now confirmed by you, the real issue here is not identity theft, because it has become apparent to you that no legal charges of a crime will be filed. The real reason is not wanting anyone to read AOL's truth, since only USAPA's version of the truth is acceptable to you.

Funny thing is, a do not call/do not send list will be done by individuals. So the malcontents, who would not be swayed by the material and will throw it away anyway, will ask not to be included. But those that want to hear the truth, or at least are open to a divergent opinion, will get the next mailing anyway, saving AOL $ in the end. Great idea!

 

[BoeingBoy]

This is the fact-finding phase...just sit tight.

So you're admitting that the claims of theft, ID theft, invasion of privacy, harassment, etc are premature at best - this is merely the "fact-finding" phase. Pass that along to your pals on the East side...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

Hmmmmm...

Fighting and assault in the hallways of the union offices.

Police called to remove legally present union representatives.

USAPA obtaining the west mailing list and sending them unwanted and unsolicited garbage.

Plan on holding your buddies to the same standard? (I didn't think so.)

LMRDA

(2) FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND ASSEMBLY.-- Every member of any labor organization shall have the right to meet and assemble freely with other members; and to express any views, arguments, or opinions; and to express at meetings of the labor organization his views, upon candidates in an election of the labor organization or upon any business properly before the meeting, subject to the organization's established and reasonable rules pertaining to the conduct of meetings: Provided, That nothing herein shall be construed to impair the right of a labor organization to adopt and enforce reasonable rules as to the responsibility of every member toward the organization as an institution and to his refraining from conduct that would interfere with its performance of its legal or contractual obligations.

Deprivation of Rights Under Act by Violence

(29 U.S.C. 530)

SEC. 610. It shall be unlawful for any person through the use of force or violence, or threat of the use of force or violence, to restrain, coerce, or intimidate, or attempt to restrain, coerce, or intimidate any member of a labor organization for the purpose of interfering with or preventing the exercise of any right to which he is entitled under the provisions of this Act. Any person who willfully violates this section shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.


I think in Cleary's case, they should seek or both