US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

You are so fond of saying PROOF!!!! Yet when confronted you don't bother to do your homework and prove your statements.

I gave one example, enough to mean that your statement about all the FO's making A320 captains was wrong. Does it really matter how wrong? Would being wrong because of 5 pilots be better than being wrong because of 10? Maybe you should learn to stop making broad-brush statements that could turn out to be wrong.

If you want specific data on certain pilots, look somewhere else - you claim to have a spreadsheet with all this information (otherwise your spreadsheet is only as good as the assumptions it contains). I'm not going to name particular pilots here.

The fact is that attrition comes from all parts of the seniority list as well as from people already on medical, supervisory, and leaves of absence. Only attrition from the left seat gets FO's into that seat. When you go out years, the data becomes fuzzier - who will go out on medical in the next 5 years, who will return that's out now (producing displacements), will there be growth, status quo, shrinkage? Will the reserve system change for better or worse in a new contract - that can make a difference in who bids a captain job when.

As I've said before, the permanent bid process on the East side is complex and that has to be taken into account as well as where attrition comes from. Predicting where a given pilot will be in 5 years is an exercise in futility - You can't just take the difference between the bottom current captain and the total number of retirements to predict where people will be, expecially those near the bottom of the seniority list. For all you, I, or anyone else knows that may be one of the pilots that go out on medical before getting in the left seat.

Jim

 

[flybynite]

Your problem is that it's not illegal to hand out name and address. They are a matter of public record for 99.9% of all adults. Do you receive mail? How many people a day see you name and address. Do you have electricity at your house. An lot of people have access to your name and address. Do you have cable TV - your name and address are known to the cable company. How about credit cards - your name and address is available to those that work there. Mailing lists are bought, sold, provided to other companies, etc all the time without your permission and no law is being broken. Heck, the FAA provides an on-line search page for getting pilot's names, addresses, class of medical.

If it turns out that the ass't chief pilot or AOL had no idea any other data was in the database or had no intent to defraud or steal the identity of anyone, I'd all but guarantee you that no crime was committed.

That is, of course, different from violating a company policy.

Jim

Jim,

I love you but you've lost it here......

I can't request a persons address due to the anti stalking laws. Mailing lists are bought and sold but that doesn't mean that they were obtained llegally.

But be that as it may......our corporate policy is very clear.....and somewhat complex.......not only are the parties that stole the info in trouble but all parties involved. AOL can claim they were not involved all they want to.....it doesn't hold water and they can be easily charged for misuse of corporate data. I can show you this in our Policy and Procedures Manuel. As welll as our company Ethics and Business Manuel.

Believe me...they are toast.

 

[GuntherA320]

I gave one example, enough to mean that your statement about all the FO's making A320 captains was wrong. Does it really matter how wrong? Would being wrong because of 5 pilots be better than being wrong because of 10? Maybe you should learn to stop making broad-brush statements that could turn out to be wrong.

If you want specific data on certain pilots, look somewhere else - you claim to have a spreadsheet with all this information (otherwise your spreadsheet is only as good as the assumptions it contains). I'm not going to name particular pilots here.

The fact is that attrition comes from all parts of the seniority list as well as from people already on medical, supervisory, and leaves of absence. Only attrition from the left seat gets FO's into that seat. When you go out years, the data becomes fuzzier - who will go out on medical in the next 5 years, who will return that's out now (producing displacements), will there be growth, status quo, shrinkage? Will the reserve system change for better or worse in a new contract - that can make a difference in who bids a captain job when.

As I've said before, the permanent bid process on the East side is complex and that has to be taken into account as well as where attrition comes from. Predicting where a given pilot will be in 5 years is an exercise in futility - You can't just take the difference between the bottom current captain and the total number of retirements to predict where people will be, expecially those near the bottom of the seniority list. For all you, I, or anyone else knows that may be one of the pilots that go out on medical before getting in the left seat.

Jim

No one needs you to name specific pilots Jim. Just do your homework and prove your post. Will there be anyone (1) retire from the right seat? yes......but only if they CHOOSE to retire from the right seat. As you say, don't make me do your research for you. DO THE HOMEWORK JIM. BACK UP YOUR STATEMENTS. Mine are factual. YOU are guessing. If you want to portray what you say as fact do the work. Don't expect people to take your word for it. Again.....let me know when YOU ACTUALLY KNOW SOMETHING. I have been conservative with my estimates. I haven't taken into account the new rest/reserve rules that are coming....I haven't taken into account the higher rate of medicals over age 60.....I haven't taken into account future aircraft deliveries or an increase in block hours. All i've taken into account for is mandatory retirements and MINIMUM block hours. Do the work Jim.......DO THE WORK......then get back to me.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

I love you but you've lost it here......

I can't request a persons address due to the anti stalking laws. Mailing lists are bought and sold but that doesn't mean that they were obtained llegally.

Presumably name and address lists are traded, sold, provided among businesses all the time - it is not illegal or the vast majority of corporate leaders would be in jail. Check the laws - it is intent that makes it illegal.

Wait till you get older - as I near 65 I get more and more mailings from companies and the AARP and have never had dealings with any of them. They got my name, address, and age (or date of birth) from somewhere. And they all did it legally to the best of my knowledge.

Just think about all the companies you willingly give your name and address to. That information is far from private given all the people with access to it.

As an individual I can see that you would find it difficult to get a mailing list of 3000+ names easily - what legal purpose would you or I have for that? But for a few bucks, if you know a name and city you can get the information for anyone for a few bucks on the internet, often including SS# and phone#. Like I said before, if you know a pilot's name the FAA will let you search for the physical address for free. That wouldn't get you PO Box info if that person get's his/her mail that way but you would know where they live. For curiosity I searched for Nos and my brother (who maintains his medical) and now know where Nos lives (I already knew where my brother lives).

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

Believe me...they are toast.

As orgasmic as that thought is to you, It's still a fantasy.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Will there be anyone (1) retire from the right seat? yes......but only if they CHOOSE to retire from the right seat.

I guess that pilot chose to go out on medical then...

I'm sure your info is accurate, it the assumptions that went into deriving that info that I question. It's the typical computer saying - junk in, junk out. You just can't seem to get it through you thick skull that total attrition doesn't matter, it's attrition that leaves a left seat opening that gets someone a captain job (or more than 1 someone depending on the equipment the vacancy is on).

What you're saying is that no FO will go out on medical in the next X years, that no FO on some kind of leave of absence won't resign when he has to decide whether to come back or not, that the gap between bottom captain and blockholder captain will not decrease if the reserve system changes for the better in any new contract, etc. Are you guaranteeing all those things? If not then your data can be, and most likely is wrong.

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

March BPR Meeting

 

[mrbreeze]

If you go on Wings to Human Resources, there is a link to HR Contacts. In that info, you will find the pilot's contact and her phone number. From what I understand, she has quit answering her phone with the latest breach of info, however, you can leave a message expressing you concern of this crime that was committed.

 

[sumadarson]

Usairways Merger Committee Update
5/11/06
Yesterday afternoon the America West Merger Committee contacted us to advise that they would not be attending our scheduled negotiations next week in Pittsburgh.
They told us that their MEC, in an effort to save money and due to a perceived lack of significant progress, had instructed them to cancel next week’s negotiations. We voiced our strong objection and pointed out that these negotiations are not optional but required under ALPA Merger Policy. We told them that this would be pursued with the ALPA national Executive Council. They said that they understood. We tentatively scheduled our next meeting for June 16-21.

 

[sumadarson]

Usairways May 2. 2006

""B-757 growth flying
Recently, I met with ALPA International President Duane Woerth and America West MEC Chairman JR
Baker. We discussed the B-757 growth flying issue and how we might reach agreement on the equitable
distribution of growth flying. The MEC subsequently endorsed a proposed settlement on this issue.
Unfortunately, it was rejected by the AWA MEC, and it appears that we are now headed to an arbitration
process. I want to get this resolved so that we can focus our attention and energy on the current joint
negotiations. I also want to mention, so there is no misunderstanding about this matter, that this allocation
of growth flying is in accordance with the Transition Agreement and does not have an effect on the
allocation of flying pursuant to a seniority integration.""

 

[sumadarson]

April 2, 2006 article. america west pilots had a bad attitude from the start

""Pilots at the old US Airways and the old America West still have not worked out critical issues of seniority, pay and work rules, and there are already strains between the two groups. America West pilots chairman JR Baker worries that US Airways union officials want to get back too much of what they gave up in two previous bankruptcies at the expense of the larger pilot group. "I'd like to send Oprah and Dr. Phil to help them with their grieving, but at the end of the day they need to start making decisions about their future," he said.""

PIT article

Merger Committee Update

4/14/06

This week your Merger Committee met with the America West Merger Committee to begin the official negotiation phase of ALPA Merger Policy.

We exchanged our certified seniority lists containing the employment data to be used for the seniority integration. Quite a bit of time was spent going over the details and unique circumstances reflected in the data on each certified list. We will be analyzing and reviewing this information over the next week.

We discussed job and fleet numbers that represent what each side is bringing to the merger. We had some productive talks and will continue on this subject at our next meeting. This is obviously an important starting point for the seniority integration.

Our next scheduled negotiations with the America West Merger Committee will be during the week of May 15 in Pittsburgh.

Your Merger Committee will be working full time in the months ahead to continue our preparations for negotiations, mediation and arbitration in our on going effort to defend the seniority of the US Airways pilots.

 

[nic4us]

You r so right A@W brought so much to this merger. Those huge money making hubs out west and the future of tremendous growth there I am so impressed.. Screw those east pilots they brought nothing to this merger. Their huge pay cuts had nothing to do with this merger or the possibility of turning this thing around. I say those A@W new hires at the time of the merger should go in front of a 17 year east pilot who was never laid off because those A@W new hires worked so hard for this and you know they brought so much to this merger. It all makes sense to me....Let them upgrade and get into widebodies first. I am guessing A@W was going to get a bunch of widebodies anyway and fly all over the globe out of PHX .

You are arguing with a new hire who could not hold a daytime tug driving shift out east who NIC probably
put above you...

NICDOA
NPJB

"who Nic probably put above you".....hahahhahhhahah... News flash junior....unless Nic put you senior to West captains who have not seen reserve or the right seat in 20 years, you can pretty much bet the farm I won't be driving that daytime tug shift.

PS. welcome back from furlough, hope that 190 is working out alright for you. I hear you got a lot of attrition coming your way...hahah...being on the bottom of the list is really good for you...hahaha...that way you can capture alll that attrition. You and "Pizza the hut" can fight over whether or not you are going to upgrade in 6 years.

Oh.. and for Easthole..and the sarcastic post you quoted. Nobody said the east has not sacrificed, and that it didn't help turn things around for you folks. We all thank you for your continued very gracious willingness to subsidize the company and remain on LOA93 indefinitely.

 

[nic4us]

Usairways May 2. 2006

""B-757 growth flying
Recently, I met with ALPA International President Duane Woerth and America West MEC Chairman JR
Baker. We discussed the B-757 growth flying issue and how we might reach agreement on the equitable
distribution of growth flying. The MEC subsequently endorsed a proposed settlement on this issue.
Unfortunately, it was rejected by the AWA MEC, and it appears that we are now headed to an arbitration
process. I want to get this resolved so that we can focus our attention and energy on the current joint
negotiations. I also want to mention, so there is no misunderstanding about this matter, that this allocation
of growth flying is in accordance with the Transition Agreement and does not have an effect on the
allocation of flying pursuant to a seniority integration.""

It ever occur to you lemmings that the West MEC endorsed a settlement on the issue, that was "unfortunately rejected by" the AAA MEC, an therefore we headed to an arbitration.

When you east folks ever get into a positon to make demands, then maybe, just maybe, some of your demands will be met. Until then, and up to now, you are not in, and have never been in a position to demand anything.

First steps to getting a little respect from the world. 1.Keep you word. 2.Don't cry wolf everytime you think you got one on the West pilots. 3. Don't file disingenous grievences to try to weasel out of rules 1 and 2. Last and probably least, it would help if you don't call the boss a liar. Oh, and I almost forgot, GET A REAL LAWYER!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

It ever occur to you lemmings that the West MEC endorsed a settlement on the issue, that was "unfortunately rejected by" the AAA MEC, an therefore we headed to an arbitration.

When you east folks ever get into a positon to make demands, then maybe, just maybe, some of your demands will be met. Until then, and up to now, you are not in, and have never been in a position to demand anything.

First steps to getting a little respect from the world. 1.Keep you word. 2.Don't cry wolf everytime you think you got one on the West pilots. 3. Don't file disingenous grievences to try to weasel out of rules 1 and 2. Last and probably least, it would help if you don't call the boss a liar. Oh, and I almost forgot, GET A REAL LAWYER!

Well if you really feel that way about it, quit sending us BS in the mail and stop stealing personal info , talk about being in a demanding position, you are in no position to demand anything out of this EAST pilot group NICHEAD!

 

[A320 Driver]

Really feeling the love, eh boys?