US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

No...I'm not real sure...but I think the CATCREW data that was illegally gained by AOL had a lot more than " -2"

You "think". Well, that's certainly the proper way to put it since you have no idea what the truth really is.

Truncated: cut short or curtailed.

So truncated could be anything from omiting everything but 1 number to giving everything but 1 number. You have no idea in this specific case and neither do I.

Why dont you give me the CATCREW equivalent from a CP office sine-in?

I have no idea what info that sine-in could access - do you know as a absolute fact what info could be accessed or is it another "you think"?

'

Then we'll talk

There's really no need. First, you don't know anything for a fact except that AOL got a list from the Ass't Chief Pilot. Second, there's no need to discuss it with a pilot based in SFO that works for another airline. If you want to discuss the seniority integration and the pros/cons of the various ways to integrate seniority, as adults without all the wild speculation, let me know.

Jim

 

[Zone5]

I think it's safe to say that slotting by DOH would have been preferred by the East pilots.

Jim

I think you are correct. No 500+ top slots for the East. No flush no bump, keep what you got, till you can do better. Furlough protection based on pre-merger list and position. No problem.

seajay

 

[e28]

You "think". Well, that's certainly the proper way to put it since you have no idea what the truth really is.

Truncated: cut short or curtailed.

So truncated could be anything from omiting everything but 1 number to giving everything but 1 number. You have no idea in this specific case and neither do I.



I have no idea what info that sine-in could access - do you know as a absolute fact what info could be accessed or is it another "you think"?

'

There's really no need. First, you don't know anything for a fact except that AOL got a list from the Ass't Chief Pilot. Second, there's no need to discuss it with a pilot based in SFO that works for another airline. If you want to discuss the seniority integration and the pros/cons of the various ways to integrate seniority, as adults without all the wild speculation, let me know.

Jim

Was there an answer in there anywhere?
No.

Hey, what? 767jetz is another airline guy..."supposedly", Metroyet is too...(wink wink)...or so he claims.

I just don't share your devotion for ALPA...whatever.

You're busted....so is AOL.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think you are correct. No 500+ top slots for the East. No flush no bump, keep what you got, till you can do better. Furlough protection based on pre-merger list and position. No problem.

Even I have said that I wouldn't handle the widebody protection the same way Nic did, but the East does deserve some type of widebody protection since the West didn't have that type of equipment. Don't know if you've noticed but Nic gave all the widebody job protection to the captains and none to the FO's. Plus, I would have limited bidding the widebody jobs to the East pilots for 5 years instead of stipulating which pilots had that protection(unless a widebody vacancy wasn't bid by East pilots).

No bump/no flush is pretty standard. The problem is that many people don't seem to understand what it means (not implying that you don't).

The biggest problem with using DOH as the basis for a combined list is that a lot of West pilots couldn't keep what they held before the merger whilc a lot of East pilots could hold a lot better (higher paying) job than they could have held before the merger.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I just don't share your devotion for ALPA...whatever.

No answer? Maybe an answer you didn't like but that's life.

At least you share the style of most East pilots - when you have nothing else attack.

Jim

 

[fodase]

a lot of West pilots couldn't keep what they held before the merger whilc a lot of East pilots could hold a lot better (higher paying) job than they could have held before the merger.

Jim

A that is why we have usapa, and it took less than an hour to unanimously convict them of dfr

 

[supercruiser]

You "think". Well, that's certainly the proper way to put it since you have no idea what the truth really is.

Truncated: cut short or curtailed.

So truncated could be anything from omiting everything but 1 number to giving everything but 1 number. You have no idea in this specific case and neither do I.
Jim

I think your thought process is truncated. If the whole number wasn't there, the company wouldn't offer potentially several hundred thousand dollars worth of identity protection, as simple name and address is easy to obtain for anyone, and a partial ss number would be worthless. I would expect the company to eventually sue to attempt recovery of the monies spent.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If the whole number wasn't there, the company wouldn't offer potentially several hundred thousand dollars worth of identity protection, as simple name and address is easy to obtain for anyone, and a partial ss number would be worthless.

Just another supposition based on "the company wouldn't".

Have you considered that the company may be getting a substantial discount given the 3000+ new LifeLock users and the advertising LifeLock gets out of the deal? Take a look at this from LifeLock's site:

Employee Discount Solution
A way to offer membership in LifeLock identity theft protection to employees at a negotiated discount with online enrollment.

Plus somebody said that Cleary was out doing ads for LifeLock earlier this week. Frankly I'd be surprised if US is paying more than 1/3 the going individual rate. The East pilots subsidize that via LOA93 in what - a week?

So don't be so anxious to jump to conclusions based on the company "giving" you something you're paying for over and over.

Jim

 

[supercruiser]

Just another supposition based on "the company wouldn't".

Have you considered that the company may be getting a substantial discount given the 3000+ new LifeLock users and the advertising LifeLock gets out of the deal? Take a look at this from LifeLock's site:

Employee Discount Solution
A way to offer membership in LifeLock identity theft protection to employees at a negotiated discount with online enrollment.

Plus somebody said that Cleary was out doing ads for LifeLock earlier this week. Frankly I'd be surprised if US is paying more than 1/3 the going individual rate. The East pilots subsidize that via LOA93 in what - a week?

So don't be so anxious to jump to conclusions based on the company "giving" you something you're paying for over and over.

Jim
[/quote

Your thought process is still truncated. So the company gets a discount; even a third of the rate is 100 grand. As far as advertising, the company probably made Lifelock sign a no advertising clause as they don't want Lifelock to advertise to the world that they can't control their employee's confidential information and need to provide Lifelock as a result. E pilots aren't subsidizing a thing. The company wouldn't spend a nickel on this if they didn't feel they have to. It's not a matter of jumping to anything, just reading company statements at face value, and seeing the resultant actions.....but you believe what you want. P.S. I've heard even E management pilots are signing up. Guess they're just paranoid.

 

[A320 Driver]

[/quote
P.S. I've heard even E management pilots are signing up. Guess they're just paranoid.
[/quote]

Or maybe they like a bargain like the rest of us. It's FREE, NO MONEY, NADA. I'm going to do it some time. Not because I'm afraid, but because it cost LCC and not ME.

Driver B)

 

[Zone5]

Even I have said that I wouldn't handle the widebody protection the same way Nic did, but the East does deserve some type of widebody protection since the West didn't have that type of equipment. Don't know if you've noticed but Nic gave all the widebody job protection to the captains and none to the FO's. Plus, I would have limited bidding the widebody jobs to the East pilots for 5 years instead of stipulating which pilots had that protection(unless a widebody vacancy wasn't bid by East pilots).

No bump/no flush is pretty standard. The problem is that many people don't seem to understand what it means (not implying that you don't).

The biggest problem with using DOH as the basis for a combined list is that a lot of West pilots couldn't keep what they held before the merger whilc a lot of East pilots could hold a lot better (higher paying) job than they could have held before the merger.
Jim

I was a junior block holding F/O on the 737 in PHL when the PI merger went down. As I recall, the Kagel award stipulated that as long as I stayed in PHL on the 737, that I could not be bumped by a more senior PI pilot. In those days the contract also provided for separate bid positions for block holder and reserve. This enabled me to maintain my pre-merger position as a 737 block holding F/O until I either voluntarily vacated that position for something better or my system-wide seniority improved enough due to attrition to make the protection unnecessary. There were a lot of pissed off PI pilots who had the seniority to hold my pre-merger job for several years, that couldn't bid it as long as I kept it, they stayed on reserve and I stayed a block holder. A similar provision would allow West pilots to "keep" what they have until attrition/growth? kicks in. That would probably be less than 5 years.

I don't think there should be any widebody protection outside of that described above. DOH across the board, when there is an opening vacated by a pre-merger pilot and you got the seniority to hold it, it's yours. Throw in a provision for pre-merger PHX F/O's giving them priority for PHX Capitan positions and their pre-merger "career expectations" are covered. Pre-merger seniority used for furlough protection.

seajay

 

[CactusPilot1]

Ooooh! scary.
Hugs and kisses

Hey e28, I just published the contact info for your legal team. Do you find that scary? Do you think they are going to need "Lifelock" now?

Hugs and kisses....Cactuspilot1

For the Defendant US Airline Pilots Association:
13 LEE SEHAM, ESQ.
LUCAS K. MIDDLEBROOK, ESQ.
14 Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, L.L.P.
445 Hamilton Avenue, Suite 1204
15 White Palins, NY 10601
914.997.1346/(fax) 914.997.7125
16
NICHOLAS P. GRANATH, ESQ.
17 Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, L.L.P.
2915 Wayzata Boulevard
18 Minneapolis, MN 55405
612.341.9080/(fax) 612.341.9079
19
STANLEY LUBIN, ESQ.
20 Lubin & Enoch, P.C.
349 N. 4th Avenue
21 Phoenix, AZ 85003
602.234.0008/(fax) 602.626.3586

 

[e28]

Hey e28, I just published the contact info for your legal team. Do you find that scary? Do you think they are going to need "Lifelock" now?

Hugs and kisses....Cactuspilot1

For the Defendant US Airline Pilots Association:
13 LEE SEHAM, ESQ.
LUCAS K. MIDDLEBROOK, ESQ.
14 Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, L.L.P.
445 Hamilton Avenue, Suite 1204
15 White Palins, NY 10601
914.997.1346/(fax) 914.997.7125
16
NICHOLAS P. GRANATH, ESQ.
17 Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, L.L.P.
2915 Wayzata Boulevard
18 Minneapolis, MN 55405
612.341.9080/(fax) 612.341.9079
19
STANLEY LUBIN, ESQ.
20 Lubin & Enoch, P.C.
349 N. 4th Avenue
21 Phoenix, AZ 85003
602.234.0008/(fax) 602.626.3586

You're embarrassing yourself now. And stop taking your BS to our FA's. Just because you westies don't get along with your FA's doesn't mean you can be condescending to ours. All I know is this: you have acknowledged that AOL got and purposely used a list you were not entitled to...and you are spending precious energy to deny and deflect it. Your significant other (BoeingBoy) has gone to bat for you by throwing out suppositions and doubts about AOL's involvement, but I just showed him to be contradicting himself as well. ( He calls that an attack...which I just dig.) Your Emperor Fergie just says I'm delusional...maybe I am, but it's his arse in the wringer (yours too) not mine.

XOXO

 

[BoeingBoy]

As I recall, the Kagel award stipulated that as long as I stayed in PHL on the 737, that I could not be bumped by a more senior PI pilot.

Kagel actually put a fence between "North" and "South" that prevented bumping across the fence for I think 2 years. Then, like is often said about this place now, the growth was to kick in. Unfortunately, the furloughs of 91 kicked in. Everyone is still waiting for the rapid growth that the Kagel C&R's were written in anticipation of.

That's generally the problem with C&R's - they're written for one future course of events. Kagel used several pages of the award for C&R's to protect the PI pilots until the growth was supposedly to kick in. Ironically, the big furlough of '91 kicked in first. The realignment of bases is one example of protections given, but when that realignment happened with the '91 furlough the protection for realignment ended up with one side getting nearly all the displacements.

Most of the Kagel C&R's used more words to spell out than the entirety of USAPA's C&R's, and the choice is between Nic and USAPA. Writing C&R's seems simple, but to really cover all envisioned eventualities they need to be complex. That complexity usually means questions will arrive because something not expected happens and someone has to decide how to interpret the C&R. Kagel retained that right for the PI/US merger, just like Nic does for this merger if his list is used. Throw out the Nic list and USAPA is the ultimate decision maker for the C&R's. Somehow I doubt that the West pilots are comfortable giving USAPA that power over their careers.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Your significant other (BoeingBoy) has gone to bat for you by throwing out suppositions and doubts about AOL's involvement, but I just showed him to be contradicting himself as well. ( He calls that an attack...which I just dig.)

You're starting to sound like Nosum. I answered your questions and you claim I didn't. You accused me of "devotion to ALPA" which is something I definitely don't suffer from, especially at the East MEC level. That was the attack.

If you're going to just be another liar on the East side (not that Nosum needs help with that job) I'll call you on every one that pertains to me. This situation is screwed up enough as it is without another smart-ass liar.

Prove that I have any "devotion to ALPA".

Time check - 10:29 lcl

Jim