US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

Steve Crimi is a Freedom scab....happy? Your illegal c&bl are all the proof anyone ever need to lable USAPA cheerleaders as SCABS.

I know for sure nobody at AOL is even remotely concerned about their cash position. Dream whatever you like.

Any questions scab?

PLEASE, look up the DEFINITION of scab. If there are any on the property and purportedly there are, they should be OUTED and removed from MIGS status, period. Outside of that, lets move on people.

To cavalierly throw the scab label around, as so many have done here, diminishes the seriousness of becoming one and disrespects the sacrifices made by all those pilots everywhere, who have given so much, to avoid being one. Stop it!

seajay

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

OH well, like I have said, nobody tells me what to think or say!

It would be nice if both sides just stuck to what they know or can verify to be facts. All this talk about the financial condition of AOL, by East posters no less, is sophomoric. Furthermore, who cares, it's their money, if the West pilots want to send it to AOL, so be it. If I were one of them, I probably would. Who wouldn't want to cash in that Lottery ticket? All, morality opinions and union politics not withstanding.

seajay

I appreciate this post, as well as a couple others you've made recently, and some not so recently for that matter. I'd like to quible just a little, at least how I see it for myself. I fund Leonidas healthily and regularily, but I don't do it to cash a lottery ticket. I do it to keep from taking an unfair penalty in my career via a unliateral cramdown from a majority flexing it's muscle. Anyhow, that's how I see it. I know you see it a little differently, that's fine and expected I suppose. In any case, I appreciate you more level headed approach in the face of the hysterics making the rounds at the moment.

 

[Zone5]

I appreciate this post, as well as a couple others you've made recently, and some not so recently for that matter. I'd like to quible just a little, at least how I see it for myself. I fund Leonidas healthily and regularily, but I don't do it to cash a lottery ticket. I do it to keep from taking an unfair penalty in my career via a unliateral cramdown from a majority flexing it's muscle. Anyhow, that's how I see it. I know you see it a little differently, that's fine and expected I suppose. In any case, I appreciate you more level headed approach in the face of the hysterics making the rounds at the moment.

We do indeed "see it " differently. I apologize for the "Lottery ticket" remark, it was a cheap shot.

You have every right to fund AOL to your hearts content and if I were you, I probably would too.

Someday, this will all be over. When it is, we will ALL need to "just get along" however it turns out. All I have ever wanted from this "career" was to fly the jet, for as much money as possible, in as few days a month as possible and to do a "mind dump" on the place once the brake is set and the door is open. My career expectations have not changed.

I also appreciate the efforts made by those who try to keep the rhetoric below the boiling point. It might be helpful, if everybody here stays mindful that this is a PUBLIC forum, pooping in our mess kits here, diminishes what little is left of our dignity and respect for our profession.

seajay

 

[Ames]

OH well, like I have said, nobody tells me what to think or say!

If I were one of them, I probably would. Who wouldn't want to cash in that Lottery ticket? All, morality opinions and union politics not withstanding.

seajay

Oh, good. Now we're getting morality comments from an eastie. PS: it's not a lottery ticket. Just the result of final and binding arbitration which you morally upright people think can be circumvented.

 

[Zone5]

Oh, good. Now we're getting morality comments from an eastie. PS: it's not a lottery ticket. Just the result of final and binding arbitration which you morally upright people think can be circumvented.

We do indeed "see it " differently. I apologize for the "Lottery ticket" remark, it was a cheap shot.

You have every right to fund AOL to your hearts content and if I were you, I probably would too.

Someday, this will all be over. When it is, we will ALL need to "just get along" however it turns out. All I have ever wanted from this "career" was to fly the jet, for as much money as possible, in as few days a month as possible and to do a "mind dump" on the place once the brake is set and the door is open. My career expectations have not changed.

seajay

..........................................................................................................................

Guess the above bears repeating.

USAPA is not doing anything "illegal" regarding the seniority dispute. If they were, they couldn't be doing it. There is a difference of opinion regarding seniority, you have yours and I have mine. This is a "legal" matter, if you want to get in to the "morality" of the issue, we might as well start talking about abortion, now there is a "moral" issue we can all sink our collective teeth in to.

The courts don't care about the "morality" of the issue, they only care about the "legality" of the issue. Think about that for a minute. You may turn out to be correct, maybe not, from a "legal" perspective and we will all find out the answer to that question in due time. We SHALL see. Regardless of which way it goes, do you not agree, that at some point the question at hand will be decided "legally"? Not emotionally or "morally".

So you see, at the end of the day, we will all be expected to abide by the "rule of law", go about our business of flying the jets and those who can't "get with the program" will just have to move on. It's that simple. No "moralizing" required or desired.

If the NIC had ended the matter, it would be over, it's not. You might as well deal with it as best you can; send money to AOL, get on a "morality" soap box on this forum, write your Congressman, join the "99 hour club" to get everything you can in the mean time, kick your dog, go to Church, whatever works for you. NOTHING you or I say on this forum, will have ANY effect on the outcome of the legal process that will determine "how it ends up".

In the mean time, it would be better, if we could all just discuss how we feel about the process unfolding and refrain from all the childish name calling and insults. Like I said, someday we will need to "just get along" and fly the jets.

seajay

 

[traderjake]

USAPA is not doing anything "illegal" regarding the seniority dispute. If they were, they couldn't be doing it. There is a difference of opinion regarding seniority, you have yours and I have mine. This is a "legal" matter, if you want to get in to the "morality" of the issue, we might as well start talking about abortion, now there is a "moral" issue we can all sink our collective teeth in to.

seajay

Is it ethical to renege on a mutully agreed upon arbitration process?

This is an issue of morality.

Everything Hilter did was legal under German law.

Four seniority arbitrations in a row (Shuttle, AWA, Delta-Northwest, and Frontier-Republic) say that slotting by equipment and status is fair and DOH is not.

How many more have to go against you before you consider the possibility that your opinion is wrong?

 

[Metroyet]

PLEASE, look up the DEFINITION of scab. If there are any on the property and purportedly there are, they should be OUTED and removed from MIGS status, period. Outside of that, lets move on people.

To cavalierly throw the scab label around, as so many have done here, diminishes the seriousness of becoming one and disrespects the sacrifices made by all those pilots everywhere, who have given so much, to avoid being one. Stop it!

seajay

I'm not using the Scab word cavalierly. It's just that there really isn't any other word in the English Language that perfectly captures the depravity of your scab union. I know what YOU think a scab is. We don't agree on the definition as I think USAPA has created a whole new definition on their own. You can stop trying to correct me on this. We don't agree, and I won't.

If anything diminishes the Scab word it's USAPA. Picket line crossing scabs are Caesar Chavez compared to USAPA.

 

[Barrister]

Is it ethical to renege on a mutully agreed upon arbitration process?

This is an issue of morality.

Everything Hilter did was legal under German law.

Four seniority arbitrations in a row (Shuttle, AWA, Delta-Northwest, and Frontier-Republic) say that slotting by equipment and status is fair and DOH is not.

How many more have to go against you before you consider the possibility that your opinion is wrong?

Your stupidity has reached an all time high...or low depending on how you view it. The "final solution" was legal under German law ?.
I know some 6th graders who know more about history than you do. You really are not serious are you?? Self loathing is a horrible thing.
Go get some sunshine in your life!!

Placing a 17 year dues paying.......well you do know the rest don't you my ignorant friend!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[CactusPilot1]

Suma,

You were very interested in my conversations with a reporter. It is not a question of if but when our side of the story will be told. Yesterday's events where police were called to the Usapian World HQ in CLT are of particular interest.

Seems like the police are now regular visitors to planet Usapia.

Part of the reporter's message sent to me.
xxxxxxx
I'm a reporter at xxx News Im not sure if others have contacted you yet....Do you have time to talk this afternoon?
xxxxx xxxxxxxxx

Sent from my iPhone

 

[luvthe9]

From the Ethics manual: "Acquiring proprietary information from others through improper means, possessing trade secret information that was improperly obtained, or inducing improper disclosure of confidential information from past or present employees or other companies is prohibited......" "If information that may constitute a trade secret or other confidential information of another business by mistake, or if you have questions about legality of proposed information gathering you must consult your supervisor, the Compliance Officer, or the General Councel's office." Not that Parker follows it anyway. Maybe Scherff and the Leonidas got the permission of a supervisor? I am sure they would not do something like this without asking a supervisor." Hello Lyle, this is John, would it be ok if I download all the east pilots private security info and send it to Eric so that the west pilots can destroy USAPA? Sure John , you have my permission, but make sure my info is not on there. Thanks Captain Hogg. We will scab for you in the future for this. Oh, John, I always knew you would." See you at 7 for cocktails at Doug's

 

[cactusboy53]

From the Ethics manual: "Acquiring proprietary information from others through improper means, possessing trade secret information that was improperly obtained, or inducing improper disclosure of confidential information from past or present employees or other companies is prohibited......" "If information that may constitute a trade secret or other confidential information of another business by mistake, or if you have questions about legality of proposed information gathering you must consult your supervisor, the Compliance Officer, or the General Councel's office." Not that Parker follows it anyway.

From another ethics manual:

Proverbs 10:9 ESV Whoever walks in integrity walks securely, but he who makes his ways crooked will be found out.

Proverbs 11:3 ESV The integrity of the upright guides them, but the crookedness of the treacherous destroys them.

Proverbs 12:22 ESV Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.

Proverbs 19:1 ESV Better is a poor person who walks in his integrity than one who is crooked in speech and is a fool.

Proverbs 28:6 ESV Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than a rich man who is crooked in his ways.

1 Peter 3:16 ESV Having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

1 Peter 2:12 ESV Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.

Luke 16:10 ESV “One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.

Colossians 3:23 ESV Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

Romans 9:1 ESV I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit—

Proverbs 20:7 ESV The righteous who walks in his integrity— blessed are his children after him!

 

[Zone5]

Is it ethical to renege on a mutully agreed upon arbitration process?

This is an issue of morality.

Everything Hilter did was legal under German law.

Four seniority arbitrations in a row (Shuttle, AWA, Delta-Northwest, and Frontier-Republic) say that slotting by equipment and status is fair and DOH is not.

How many more have to go against you before you consider the possibility that your opinion is wrong?

Again, it doesn't matter what the ethical or moral implications or aspects of the seniority dispute are. This matter, at this point, will be decided on the legal merits of one side of the issue or the other. The time for the "morality" of the issue to hold sway passed long ago, over the negotiating table. The decision will now be ultimately made in a court of law.

I suggest you forward your opinion regarding the possible relevance of the past Shuttle, AWA, Delta-Northwest, and Frontier-Republic seniority decisions to the AOL lawyers. It should probably be included in their eventual legal argument when and if DFR-II is filed.

"How many more have to go against you before you consider the possibility that your opinion is wrong?", that's easy, only one, this ONE!

seajay

 

[aquagreen73s]

Your stupidity has reached an all time high...or low depending on how you view it. The "final solution" was legal under German law ?.
I know some 6th graders who know more about history than you do. You really are not serious are you?? Self loathing is a horrible thing.
Go get some sunshine in your life!!

Placing a 17 year dues paying.......well you do know the rest don't you my ignorant friend!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Wow. Trader sure got this lemming fired up!

 

[e28]

Suma,

You were very interested in my conversations with a reporter. It is not a question of if but when our side of the story will be told. Yesterday's events where police were called to the Usapian World HQ in CLT are of particular interest.

Seems like the police are now regular visitors to planet Usapia.

Part of the reporter's message sent to me.
xxxxxxx
I'm a reporter at xxx News Im not sure if others have contacted you yet....Do you have time to talk this afternoon?
xxxxx xxxxxxxxx

Sent from my iPhone

Be sure to include the recent theft of identity information for 3000 pilots at USAirways by "your side" when you have this chat....
Because we certainly will. Remember, a good reporter always wants both sides to a story.
Reporters love stories like that, especially in today's uber-hysterical and security conscious society. Heck, maybe we can use the Ethics Manual quote above and the Bible lesson by Pastor Westie too....yeah...that'd be good.

 

[cactusboy53]

The company provided a letter to the Usairways pilots stating that a west assistant chief pilot stole the East pilot personal information with social security numbers from company computers. The assistant chief pilot from the west emailed it to the west pilots underfunded legal group, who knowingly took possession.

You are misinformed.

"Captain Cleary's note correctly stated that a US Airways pilot provided to Leonidas a list of East pilots names.."

You sir are a LIAR, CHEAT AND THIEF. Johnson's letter clearly explains the event. Why don't you take a break and go the bathroom and flush all the bile and hate from your system, and take the time to read brochure 3.

The first quote on the front says: "No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts....". That quote if from our "illustrious" leaders, Mike Cleary & Randy Mowrey: US AIRWAVES June/July 2000

Here's another gem: "The only certainty in seniority integratin is that the outcome is never certain....Each case presents its own facts and equities, and each requires a resolutions tailor-made to the situation presented." Mike Cleary & Randy Mowrey: US AIRWAVES Jan/Feb/Mar 2002. BTW, Arbitrator Nicolau said quite nearly the same thing on page 19 of the Nicolau Award ---you have read that document, haven't you?

I don't know what the end product of the investigation will turn up, but if history is any indication....would you like bacon or ham with the eggs on your face?