No reason??? I'm still waiting for your full name, home address and last but not least, your social security number. Talk about scum... to further your own political agenda those within your group have resorted to theft of private company property and to make matters worse... it wasn't just addresses that were stolen but SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS AS WELL. It looks to me like AOL and the company have themselves in quite a "pickle". Life lock for a year... no f'in way!... The potential damage and liability that could result from this is ENORMOUS!
US Pilots Labor Discussion
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luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
Maybe at whiffleball!!
swing and a miss!!!There's only a few outcomes from this...none are good.
1) The person who distributed any data from CATCREW to some west pilots directly goes down in flames as the company "handles the breach" to satisfy (CYA) the legal department. This person will point to the two pilots as requesters' of said data in order to save his own bacon....everyone looking to save themselves from going under the bus.
2) The two west pilots may point to AOL for cover in this...the problem is, the company has custody of this data, and AOL isn't even a bona-fide and recognized entity in the company/pilot union relationship...and therefore is not entitled to any data for mass mailing purposes....USAPA has that authority, not AOL via the companies database.
3) The company drops the hammer on AOL..not USAPA, USAPA has no dog in this matter, except to retaliate at the compromised employee data.
The comments from west poster's is eerily similar to the poop-mail, 5,000 phone calls on the safety line... doll in cockpit stuff... Prove it...what harm? Who did it?...
When taken in totality with the historical and illegal/borderline illegal stunts the west has pulled over time, not only is this not surprising, it's obvious.
1) The person who distributed any data from CATCREW to some west pilots directly goes down in flames as the company "handles the breach" to satisfy (CYA) the legal department. This person will point to the two pilots as requesters' of said data in order to save his own bacon....everyone looking to save themselves from going under the bus.
2) The two west pilots may point to AOL for cover in this...the problem is, the company has custody of this data, and AOL isn't even a bona-fide and recognized entity in the company/pilot union relationship...and therefore is not entitled to any data for mass mailing purposes....USAPA has that authority, not AOL via the companies database.
3) The company drops the hammer on AOL..not USAPA, USAPA has no dog in this matter, except to retaliate at the compromised employee data.
The comments from west poster's is eerily similar to the poop-mail, 5,000 phone calls on the safety line... doll in cockpit stuff... Prove it...what harm? Who did it?...
When taken in totality with the historical and illegal/borderline illegal stunts the west has pulled over time, not only is this not surprising, it's obvious.
Zone5
Veteran
- Dec 17, 2010
- 773
- 696
As I am not an "expert" on the AWA contract, I'm not in a position to offer much of an opinion regarding the relative merits of it when compared to the AAA contract. On the surface, there seem to be quite a few superior aspects of it, compared to the East contract. However, to answer your question about "How much is an extra 10 days vacation worth at $93 an hour worth?", I did take a quick look at the AWA Section 7 Vacation portion and the answer is $3,400. Of course the "extra 10 days" the West gets that you refer to is a misleading statement, as your vacation accrual is based on years of longevity (there's that nasty, how long have you been here thing) and the extra 10 days only goes to those hired prior to 1992. With those receiving 21 days per year (current AAA max) being hired prior to 2002. Be that as it may, your assertion that "extra vacation" equals extra pay is not necessarily correct, unless you are able to sell it back to the company (pay no credit) it becomes pay and credit. It's not "extra" income, it's just "money for doing nothing" and you don't get any "chicks for free" (sorry, Dire Straights). Same goes for "dead heading" pay and credit. OH, and just for the sake of accuracy, the difference in pay for Captains on the West 75 and the East 330 is $17.71 per/hr, for an 85 hour block, that's a little over $18,000 per year. Furthermore, a West 75 Captain would have to average 95.5 hr/month (every month) to make the same pay that an East 330 Captain makes flying 85 hours.
All the other contract provisions you refer to are more in the QOL category and or further enable West pilots to "get there time in" with fewer days of work or less effort. The average block of time on the West is 85 hours, how you reach that many credited hours of pay and credit, matters not with respect to how much money you are paid for it. Even a "clown" like me can do the math. It's the HOURLY PAY that generates the check. The only way a West pilot can make more than an East pilot on the 75/76 (and 330 for that matter) is to join the "I can fly up to 99 hour club" and deny a recall to a West furloughee in the process. Who is taking who's job?
seajay
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
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- Feb 10, 2011
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Attn West pilots, we deserve equal protection and the following letter is being circulated.
Dear Mr. Hemenway,
It has come to my attention that my SSN was transmitted to the East Pilot Merger Committee by the company in 2005. While this has been some time ago, the publicity of the 2005 transmission is now being made very public. Considering the vindictive nature of USAPA, which I am certainly well acquainted with, it would not be unreasonable to believe East Pilots in receipt of the 2005 list may now exploit the information of West pilots like myself since it has now been clearly brought to their attention on where those SSN are located, how they can be accessed, and destructively used against us through identity theft, etc.
I am disappointed that the breach of my SSN information was not conveyed to me in 2005 when it was first brought to the attention of HR. I have no doubt that those lists were not all destroyed by the East Pilots in receipt of them during 2005 when the error was discovered. Therefore, I would now like to have the same Lifelock protection Steven Johnson has extended to the East Pilots, extended to me for the same reasons but for a time period of 5 years. I am quite unpopular with USAPA President Mike Cleary's "in crowd" and have reasonable concern over how my personal information may be destructively used against me for a significant amount of time.
Finally, I would like to know what steps HR has taken to ensure that this type of error does not happen again.
Thanks for your prompt time and attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
XXXX
Dear Mr. Hemenway,
It has come to my attention that my SSN was transmitted to the East Pilot Merger Committee by the company in 2005. While this has been some time ago, the publicity of the 2005 transmission is now being made very public. Considering the vindictive nature of USAPA, which I am certainly well acquainted with, it would not be unreasonable to believe East Pilots in receipt of the 2005 list may now exploit the information of West pilots like myself since it has now been clearly brought to their attention on where those SSN are located, how they can be accessed, and destructively used against us through identity theft, etc.
I am disappointed that the breach of my SSN information was not conveyed to me in 2005 when it was first brought to the attention of HR. I have no doubt that those lists were not all destroyed by the East Pilots in receipt of them during 2005 when the error was discovered. Therefore, I would now like to have the same Lifelock protection Steven Johnson has extended to the East Pilots, extended to me for the same reasons but for a time period of 5 years. I am quite unpopular with USAPA President Mike Cleary's "in crowd" and have reasonable concern over how my personal information may be destructively used against me for a significant amount of time.
Finally, I would like to know what steps HR has taken to ensure that this type of error does not happen again.
Thanks for your prompt time and attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
XXXX
Ok so if I make the same money by working less, is that a good or bad thing in clown world?
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
- Feb 10, 2011
- 1,647
- 5,392
March 28, 2011
Fellow AWA Pilots:
Last week, US Airways Vice President Stephen Johnson wrote a letter to pilots in response to USAPA President Mike Cleary’s complaints about literature sent to East pilots to help educate and inform them about West litigation, and the loss of several years of effective collective bargaining. I write you today to provide you with information about past breeches of West pilots’ personal information that have thus far been relatively ignored by company managers.
In his letter, Mr. Johnson informed us that the company had placed three pilots on administrative leave pending an investigation into circumstances regarding the transmission of a seniority list that had hidden Social Security Numbers (“SSNs”) in a protected part of the list. While I firmly believe that any subsequent investigation will fully exonerate the suspended pilots of any wrong doing, the placing of these West pilots on Restricted Duty/Suspension is unacceptable and inappropriate. I also believe these actions are not in compliance with the terms of our collective bargaining agreement.
I think we are all no strangers to the upset and turmoil that is union politics. ALPA certainly had its share, and to that extent, most us were probably amused at Mr. Cleary’s accusations, and his continuing wild-eyed attacks on anyone or any entity that has a difference of opinion with him, which is truly at the root of this problem. But it is clear that the company has a systemic problem protecting the SSNs of pilots and is using outdated and improper Human Resource policies in this regard.
But it should be clearly pointed out that it was not the fault of any of the suspended pilots that this occurred and the so-called SSN breech was only discovered much later as a part of Mr. Cleary’s manufactured smear campaign.
Here are some things that you should know about similar breeches of your own information:
(i) In 2000, AWAHC transmitted confidential SSN data to the AWA ALPA MEC when sending an excel sheet costing proposal during contract negotiations. The AWA MEC deleted that data, and AWA MEC informed the company. To my knowledge, no further investigations or reprisals or suspensions took place.
(ii) In 2004, the same mistake happened again when AWAHC transmitted confidential data to ALPA that inadvertently contained your SSNs. Again, ALPA deleted the information and informed the company. To my knowledge, no further investigations or reprisals or suspensions took place.
(iii) You should all be aware that in 2005, during our seniority list integration process, company managers likewise again inadvertently transmitted a West list to the US Airways East pilot merger committee that contained all West pilots’ Social Security Numbers. The company, when informed, did not offer free Lifelock subscriptions, nor did they take any steps to conduct an internal investigation, suspend any internal employees, contact law enforcement or any federal authorities.
(iv) Many of the former AWA MEC volunteers believe that USAPA, prior to the NMB election, was able to access West pilots’ personal information from company databases. We believed that East pilot managers supplied this information to them as the address and name formats used in some cases did not match ALPA or FAA databases. Again, to my knowledge, no investigation took place.
While the breech of SSN and other personal information by corporations has become a huge liability problem and was highlighted by many recent high-profile media cases, I am not aware of one incident of pilot identity theft that has occurred as a result of the inadvertent breeches of pilot SSNs hidden in an excel seniority list. While it is important that the company safeguard our data, the problem appears to be systemic in how the company HR and Labor departments store our SSN data coincident with our seniority data in Microsoft Excel spreadsheets. That said, I would point out to company managers that it is more important to fix the company’s apparent systemic problem of failing to protect our SSNs on a continuing basis, rather than satisfy Mr. Cleary’s desire for political revenge, and the company’s desire to either appease or outmaneuver him.
When all the facts come out, I firmly believe that any investigation will exonerate the pilots affected. These suspended West pilots have been hard-working volunteers who have put in many unpaid hours for years watching our backs. They are all dedicated, well-respected and professional pilots who do not deserve this additional stress that is being imposed on themselves and their families.
It is NOT acceptable for management to have placed these pilots on Restricted Duty pending the outcome of an investigation that was orchestrated for political purposes either to appease or outmaneuver Mr. Cleary, especially given past company performance with regard to the breech of West pilot data, and given the true circumstances of the alleged incident.
Thank you for your time.
Fraternally,
John McIlvenna
Former AWA MEC Chairman
Fellow AWA Pilots:
Last week, US Airways Vice President Stephen Johnson wrote a letter to pilots in response to USAPA President Mike Cleary’s complaints about literature sent to East pilots to help educate and inform them about West litigation, and the loss of several years of effective collective bargaining. I write you today to provide you with information about past breeches of West pilots’ personal information that have thus far been relatively ignored by company managers.
In his letter, Mr. Johnson informed us that the company had placed three pilots on administrative leave pending an investigation into circumstances regarding the transmission of a seniority list that had hidden Social Security Numbers (“SSNs”) in a protected part of the list. While I firmly believe that any subsequent investigation will fully exonerate the suspended pilots of any wrong doing, the placing of these West pilots on Restricted Duty/Suspension is unacceptable and inappropriate. I also believe these actions are not in compliance with the terms of our collective bargaining agreement.
I think we are all no strangers to the upset and turmoil that is union politics. ALPA certainly had its share, and to that extent, most us were probably amused at Mr. Cleary’s accusations, and his continuing wild-eyed attacks on anyone or any entity that has a difference of opinion with him, which is truly at the root of this problem. But it is clear that the company has a systemic problem protecting the SSNs of pilots and is using outdated and improper Human Resource policies in this regard.
But it should be clearly pointed out that it was not the fault of any of the suspended pilots that this occurred and the so-called SSN breech was only discovered much later as a part of Mr. Cleary’s manufactured smear campaign.
Here are some things that you should know about similar breeches of your own information:
(i) In 2000, AWAHC transmitted confidential SSN data to the AWA ALPA MEC when sending an excel sheet costing proposal during contract negotiations. The AWA MEC deleted that data, and AWA MEC informed the company. To my knowledge, no further investigations or reprisals or suspensions took place.
(ii) In 2004, the same mistake happened again when AWAHC transmitted confidential data to ALPA that inadvertently contained your SSNs. Again, ALPA deleted the information and informed the company. To my knowledge, no further investigations or reprisals or suspensions took place.
(iii) You should all be aware that in 2005, during our seniority list integration process, company managers likewise again inadvertently transmitted a West list to the US Airways East pilot merger committee that contained all West pilots’ Social Security Numbers. The company, when informed, did not offer free Lifelock subscriptions, nor did they take any steps to conduct an internal investigation, suspend any internal employees, contact law enforcement or any federal authorities.
(iv) Many of the former AWA MEC volunteers believe that USAPA, prior to the NMB election, was able to access West pilots’ personal information from company databases. We believed that East pilot managers supplied this information to them as the address and name formats used in some cases did not match ALPA or FAA databases. Again, to my knowledge, no investigation took place.
While the breech of SSN and other personal information by corporations has become a huge liability problem and was highlighted by many recent high-profile media cases, I am not aware of one incident of pilot identity theft that has occurred as a result of the inadvertent breeches of pilot SSNs hidden in an excel seniority list. While it is important that the company safeguard our data, the problem appears to be systemic in how the company HR and Labor departments store our SSN data coincident with our seniority data in Microsoft Excel spreadsheets. That said, I would point out to company managers that it is more important to fix the company’s apparent systemic problem of failing to protect our SSNs on a continuing basis, rather than satisfy Mr. Cleary’s desire for political revenge, and the company’s desire to either appease or outmaneuver him.
When all the facts come out, I firmly believe that any investigation will exonerate the pilots affected. These suspended West pilots have been hard-working volunteers who have put in many unpaid hours for years watching our backs. They are all dedicated, well-respected and professional pilots who do not deserve this additional stress that is being imposed on themselves and their families.
It is NOT acceptable for management to have placed these pilots on Restricted Duty pending the outcome of an investigation that was orchestrated for political purposes either to appease or outmaneuver Mr. Cleary, especially given past company performance with regard to the breech of West pilot data, and given the true circumstances of the alleged incident.
Thank you for your time.
Fraternally,
John McIlvenna
Former AWA MEC Chairman
Brilliant...!
Make USAPA's case for them. In typical west style, when confronted in a compromised position, just start shooting in all directions. Yeah, stuff like this letter to AH really endears you to Dougie...You guys out west must be nervous to come up with this idiotic and totally defensive move.
My cat could see that if AOL didn't run this stupid campaign aimed at east pilots, this very serious situation YOU have placed the company in wouldn't exist. You must be very proud...how do you think Doug sees the AOL now?
Nothing but expensive trouble for him.
Make USAPA's case for them. In typical west style, when confronted in a compromised position, just start shooting in all directions. Yeah, stuff like this letter to AH really endears you to Dougie...You guys out west must be nervous to come up with this idiotic and totally defensive move.
My cat could see that if AOL didn't run this stupid campaign aimed at east pilots, this very serious situation YOU have placed the company in wouldn't exist. You must be very proud...how do you think Doug sees the AOL now?
Nothing but expensive trouble for him.
This is called "deflection"..something guilty people do when facing certain discovery.
Black Swan
Veteran
- Dec 13, 2009
- 2,894
- 5,045
Thank you for confirming to us, that you knew the SS numbers were in the data base. You have confirmed it over and over in this letter. Leonidas knew it, and accessed the same database fully knowing if it were delivered from the same company system, it would, as repeatedly affirmed by Mr. McIlvenna- contain those same SS numbers. So you did it, and you got them. It was no secret you were going to get them again. But the big difference this time is this: Fully knowing you would get them, you got them in an inappropriate and illegal fashion. You are even more guilty of what you are charged with, as you conspired to retrieve, and accepted unlawfully retrieved data, containing unlawful information when disclosed to a KNOWING third party. Just wait until the IT guys in the FBI or the company get into the keystrokes of where these perpetrators went. You will know the entire story.
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