US Pilots Labor Discussion

[GuntherA320]

You.

Believe whatever you what, that's the nature of being a USAPA supporter.

Trader? How's your back feeling? I know you had to get off of your trip this weekend for that. It must have been a brutal drive back to ATL. I don't know how you're helping your sister raise those 2 Chinese girls with a bad back. PS Nos.....Trader doesn't have BOS overnights. He mostly bids SFO weekend trips. Apparently they have an ample supply of fish oil out there that Trader likes. Trader.....you're going to stroke out if you keep taking that much fish oil.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sorry gunther, you're stuck with me. No obsession either, just wonderment at how bad info seems to have a life of it's own on this thread. As I said earlier, if you count the E190 some new hires will undoubtedly make captain in 5 years, assuming US doesn't sell the remainder of that fleet. Personally I see that as a FO job because of the pay, but I've never had captainitis - most pilots don't. But there's no way that new hires will be GP2 captains in 5 years in my estimation - too many people ahead of them that can outbid them for those jobs. But time will tell who's right.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

And you trust this company to keep detailed records to protect you? Boy are you naive or either this company has changed a lot since you retired in 06.....

Yes - or the FAA would be after them and not me.

Trick, tactic, whatever......and yes it did work.

I'm sure it did with some of your "friend's" suspects. What you fail to recognize is that your "friend" used a different trick than you're using. Like I said, you can't even get that right.

Jim

PS - I assume you haven't found any proof yet - just like Nosum.

 

[GuntherA320]

Sorry gunther, you're stuck with me. No obsession either, just wonderment at how bad info seems to have a life of it's own on this thread. As I said earlier, if you count the E190 some new hires will undoubtedly make captain in 5 years, assuming US doesn't sell the remainder of that fleet. Personally I see that as a FO job because of the pay, but I've never had captainitis - most pilots don't. But there's no way that new hires will be GP2 captains in 5 years in my estimation - too many people ahead of them that can outbid them for those jobs. But time will tell who's right.

Jim

[PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED BY MODERATOR] I'm not counting E190 captain slots.....those are basically premium F/O slots. Count on it.....the west pilots that were recalled to the East list will be captains on the East (if they want a Captain slot) in 5 years. It's driving the westies crazy to know this. It's why there is so much desperation out of them in the last few months. They know that the window of change is closing. I have flown with two 62+ year old captains in the last 2 weeks. Both of them support USAPA and neither expect a raise. They are going out as soon as their sick time will allow it. You can suppose all you want to Jim. 1200+ retirements and medicals in the next 5 years.......count on it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

They are going out as soon as their sick time will allow it. You can suppose all you want to Jim. 1200+ retirements and medicals in the next 5 years.......count on it.

As I said before, there's no sign of an increase of people going out on medical disability at a faster rate than before and we're within that "2 year window" that's bandied about. There's another reason I think but I'll have to check the East contract before I mention it.

1200+ pilots is what I showed, so you don't have to convince me of that. Unfortunately, a number of them are already on medical, won't be back, and their slot has already been filed. They won't leave a vacancy behind when they reach 65.

But as I also said, in 5 years we'll know who's right. Until then, neither of us can guarantee forecasts for the future - US may expand or there may be some event that causes it to shrink. There could even be a merger. Nobody knows, including you or I.

Jim

 

[FL430]

Yes - or the FAA would be after them and not me.



I'm sure it did with some of your "friend's" suspects. What you fail to recognize is that your "friend" used a different trick than you're using. Like I said, you can't even get that right.

Jim

PS - I assume you haven't found any proof yet - just like Nosum.

The proof is coming together in my very detailed logbook , and the witness list is growing by the week. When should we serve the subpoenas? Or will depositions suffice? Can we agree in advance that the standard of guilt or innocence shall be decided by the "preponderance of evidence" as in most civil trials?

You have never answered my question directly. Did you vote for the "B" scale contract? You evade the issue.


Will you take that polygraph?

Try to answer the question instead of deflecting.

 

[GuntherA320]

As I said before, there's no sign of an increase of people going out on medical disability at a faster rate than before and we're within that "2 year window" that's bandied about. There's another reason I think but I'll have to check the East contract before I mention it.

1200+ pilots is what I showed, so you don't have to convince me of that. Unfortunately, a number of them are already on medical, won't be back, and their slot has already been filed. They won't leave a vacancy behind when they reach 65.

But as I also said, in 5 years we'll know who's right. Until then, neither of us can guarantee forecasts for the future - US may expand or there may be some event that causes it to shrink. There could even be a merger. Nobody knows, including you or I.

Jim

The one thing I am absolutely sure of is that you absolutely don't know. It is the one absolute truth you have finally spoken over the last 3 years. I'm glad you agree that there will be 1200+ people leaving on the East. A pilot that is 3400 on the east now will be 2200 on the East in 5 years. Right now.....in the worst of economic times....the bottom Group 2 captain is 2265. Absent a merger or a catastrophic event, that pilot will be able to hold a group 2 captain slot. Are some of those 1200 out on medical right now.....absolutely.......but look at the bids for the last 5 years.......A seniority number between 2100 to 2300 has held a group 2 captain position during that entire time. Is something going to happen to change that number? Perhaps.....but it's more likely that the number will go to 2400 than 1900.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You have never answered my question directly. Did you vote for the "B" scale contract?

You claim to know the answer so no need for me to answer. Since we're not talking a court case, how about you just post a copy of my vote for the B-scale which you claim exists.

Now I asked for proof but you just keep deflecting - how about you just provide your proof and let everyone decide. After all, scribblings in a pocket logbook can be made any time - even next week - and I'm sure that some of your East buds her would more than happily tell you whatever you wanted to hear about me - not exactly an impartial witness list.

So where is the proof big boy...

Otherwise you're just making it up.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Trader? How's your back feeling? I know you had to get off of your trip this weekend for that. It must have been a brutal drive back to ATL. I don't know how you're helping your sister raise those 2 Chinese girls with a bad back. PS Nos.....Trader doesn't have BOS overnights. He mostly bids SFO weekend trips. Apparently they have an ample supply of fish oil out there that Trader likes. Trader.....you're going to stroke out if you keep taking that much fish oil.

Thanks for the concern. Your officially old when you have to get off a trip for a bad back. I mostly fly LAX.

The 9 year old loves the salmon oil too (we chew the capsules). She laughs when I tell her the Captains are too afraid to try it.

 

[GuntherA320]

Thanks for the concern. Your officially old when you have to get off a trip for a bad back. I mostly fly LAX.

The 9 year old loves the salmon oil too (we chew the capsules). She laughs when I tell her the Captains are too afraid to try it.

I heard you chew the capsules. Just curious....why do you chew capsules instead of swallowing them? You do realize they make chewables that are not capsules?

 

[BoeingBoy]

The one thing I am absolutely sure of is that you absolutely don't know.

As I said - I can't predict the future. Who knows, there may be some epidemic that wipes out pilots over 55 (though I certainly hope not). But one thing is absolutely true - you have no better idea than I. As I mentioned earlier today, it's obvious you have no idea how permanent bids work or you'd know that just someday reaching the seniority of today's junior captain is no guarantee that a pilot will be able to hold the same or equivalent junior captian job. When you understand how the permanent bids work get back to me.

Jim

ps - your true motives are showing with that "It is the one absolute truth you have finally spoken over the last 3 years" remark. A true USAPA supporting Eastie would die before admitting someone "on the other side" might be right, particularly when it involves opinions about the future.

 

[traderjake]

I heard you chew the capsules. Just curious....why do you chew capsules instead of swallowing them? You do realize they make chewables that are not capsules?

I like the taste and if I don't chew them they make me burp.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You obviously don't pay attention to the trends of the last 5 years. You didn't admit you were wrong....but at least you admit that you actually don't know everything.

At least I'm man enough to admit it, unlike most of the Easties here, including yourself. Actually I have paid attention to the trends over the last (less than) 5 years. Age 65 brought an increase in the number out on medical compared to what one would expect prior to the age change - as would be expected. But the general way the pilot group bids hasn't changed. That's where your vision fails you.

P.S. Are you admitting that YOU are on the other side???

As long as you understand that the "other side" is the DOH vs relative position by equipment/seat, I've never denied it. But as I've also said, if the East and West were reversed and it was the West that was trying to circumvent an arbitrator's award and get DOH I'd still be supporting relative position by equipment/seat. So for me it's not an East vs West thing but rather what I view as a fair basis for integrating lists.

You certainly don't know about the most recent permanent bids or retirements. It's sad to see you go down hill like this. An old man trying to hold on to what he once had is a pitiful site. Embrace what you are now. Don't hold on to those glory days. This is why the best thought of athletes go out on top......the ones that hold on till they can't play anymore are not well remembered.

Somehow I'm not surprised by the personal attacks coming from a USAPA supporting Eastie. Seems to be the only way most of you can act. You just can't stand someone having a different opinion. Pretty childish if you ask me...

Jim

 

[GuntherA320]

At least I'm man enough to admit it, unlike most of the Easties here, including yourself. Actually I have paid attention to the trends over the last (less than) 5 years. Age 65 brought an increase in the number out on medical compared to what one would expect prior to the age change - as would be expected. But the general way the pilot group bids hasn't changed. That's where your vision fails you.



As long as you understand that the "other side" is the DOH vs relative position by equipment/seat, I've never denied it. But as I've also said, if the East and West were reversed and it was the West that was trying to circumvent an arbitrator's award and get DOH I'd still be supporting relative position by equipment/seat. So for me it's not an East vs West thing but rather what I view as a fair basis for integrating lists.



Somehow I'm not surprised by the personal attacks coming from a USAPA supporting Eastie. Seems to be the only way most of you can act. You just can't stand someone having a different opinion. Pretty childish if you ask me...

Jim

Jim......I will gladly admit when i'm wrong.....unfortunately for you, you haven't proven me wrong yet. Where is your PROOF Jim? You have absolutely no basis for your numbers. You can't go off of how things were 6 years ago. It's like trying to compare basketball teams before there was a 3 point line or football teams before there was a forward pass. You have absolutely no idea what is going to happen. We only agree on one thing.....that there will be 1200+ less east pilots in 5 years. Question for you Jim.....will that be better or worse for New Hire east pilots? Will it be better or worse for mid seniority level east pilots? Will it be better or worse for senior east pilots who are young enough to enjoy it? Jim, you only know how to find the negative that is anything that is east. You are a bitter old man. It really is a sad sight. Again....people that hold on to the past are not remembered well. It's sad you have to do this. Most people look forward to retirement. I guess there are always some that will hold onto and live in the past. You really just aren't that important anymore as much as you like to think so.

P.S. When you say "Nah nah nuh nah nah.....where's your PROOF Nos?" it isn't childish at all. Why don't you just answer his question?

 

[BoeingBoy]

unfortunately for you, you haven't proven me wrong yet. Where is your PROOF Jim?

There's your first problem - thinking you know exactly what will happen over the next 5 years. We...at least I am talking about a difference of opinion on what the future may hold. The mere fact that you claim to know what the next 5 years will hold means you have bigger problems than just who will get what or which of us is "right".

Was it you that I had the discussion with about a bid back in 2007 or so. Was it you who claimed that if X number of people retired, only that number of people would move because of their leaving. If it was you, I see that your understanding of the permanent bid process hasn't improved since.

P.S. When you say "Nah nah nuh nah nah.....where's your PROOF Nos?" it isn't childish at all. Why don't you just answer his question?

Nosum made specific accusations against me that aren't true. He has no proof to back up his accusations and I know there is none. So I'm just a persistent reminder that lying won't work. It seems that FL430 is tacking up the same tactics. Are you going to start now?

Jim