US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

As much as facts get discarded here, I thought I'd throw out some. From the 2011 East seniority list the number of age 65 retirements for the next several years and the number of those that are on non-fliight status (supervisory, medical, already retired, etc)

2011 - 0 / 0
2012 - 7 / 3
2013 - 138 / 43
2014 - 198 / 58
2015 - 180 / 42
2016 - 226 / 55
2017 - 235 / 58
2018 - 257 / 51

Total = 1241 / 310

So probably about 900 retirements that leave an opening in the next 7 years (the number on medical will slowly go up until retirements start). That's about 40% of the East pilots on the seniority list in 2005 (the Nic list).

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the numbers. So 25% of east attrition is not even bidding a position. Not much value if someone leaves but no one knows because he is already gone.

 

[cleardirect]

because there are a lot of guys that can hold captain curretnly that bid F/O.
so if a guy is 2800 now... he only needs to get to 2100 to be a capt..

wont be that long.

Why would that be? Could it be lifestyle? Kind of defeats all of your arguments that the west will move or commute to PHL or CLT to fly the trashed our WB's the first chance we get.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Clear,

It's mainly a result of two factors, although QOL, having to commute, etc play some role too.

1 - The East reserve system is so bad that a lot of those with the seniority to hold captain don't bid it at the first opportunity, preferring to wait till they're a senior reserve/blockholder.

2 - pay differences allow the 330 FO's and maybe the 76 FO's to make as much as guarantee for a reserve GP2 captain.

All rolled together, there are a lot of pilots waiting to upgrade until they can be high enough on the reserve list or blockholder.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

how do you maintain the East on a lower pay scale, crow about it constantly, then say we harmed you? This will be Exhibit A when we clean your clocks when you try and cry.

Here is how.

The only people maintaining the east on lower pay is the east, and they are doing it intentionally to avoid the Nic.

Harm comes from the failure of representation toward the West.

Absolutely mutually exclusive.

Exhibit A will be what, that usapa intentionally denied the West pilot group advancements in a new contract so that east pilots could maintain seperate ops, remain on LOA93(while desperately trying to get out from under it), and avoid the Nic.

I like Exhibit A. What a clock cleaner.

Damges started Aug 2008, we are going to collect.

 

[Phoenix]

[When you promise yourself to start the Atkins diet on 1 Jan, do you go to jail when you start the Southbeach diet instead? Internal union process. Binding ratification. Your turn.]


When you steal money from your brother do you call it an internal family matter?

I really wouldn't know about allegations of theft among family members. The 9th used the term "internal union dispute". Come up with whatever analogy you like if it makes it more palatable for you.

 

[traderjake]

I really wouldn't know about allegations of theft among family members. The 9th used the term "internal union dispute". Come up with whatever analogy you like if it makes it more palatable for you.

They used a lot of terms, insert them into any context you like if it makes you feel better.

They only made one ruling, that the case was not ripe.

They never said, as you imply, that the West did not have a case.

 

[MyJ4JjobSucks]

Jim,

Thanks for the numbers. So 25% of east attrition is not even bidding a position. Not much value if someone leaves but no one knows because he is already gone.

That 25% is included and slotted in the Nic list. So by using the logic that they have no value, shouldn't the East pilots be slotted up another 25%.

 

[767jetz]

Looks like US Airways is cutting capacity just like everyone else.

US Airways cutting and downsizing

Hey Nos (aka: sumadarson), can we now chime in and tell you to get ready to be furloughed again since US is downsizing? You live in a glass house yet love to throw rocks. Right back at ya, big guy.

"US Airways Group Inc said it would reduce flying this year, joining United Continental Holdings and other carriers that have already outlined capacity curbs.

US Airways said its fourth-quarter system capacity would be down as much as 2 percent from previously expected levels..."

 

[FL430]

You're really Nos in drag, right? Same tendency to make accusations without any basis, ignore requests for proof, and use every opportunity for further attack. Next it'll be Nos' signature "I rest my case."

Jim

Hey "Rockford " what is your infatuation with NOS? That grudge you carry around makes you a big target. Do you remember giving JT OE on the 72 back in Jan 1982 and a hydraulic malfunction had you guys selecting gear up with the gear pins in and the hyd system pressurized. Check your logbook - i know more about your sorry ass than you could ever possibly imagine.

If a court can use eyewitness testimony to convict someone then so can I. That being the case, your goose is cooked. My basis is other pilots ( more than six ) testimony that know you well. The fact that you didnt deny the allegation is also very telling.

 

[sumadarson]

Looks like US Airways is cutting capacity just like everyone else.

US Airways cutting and downsizing

Hey Nos (aka: sumadarson), can we now chime in and tell you to get ready to be furloughed again since US is downsizing? You live in a glass house yet love to throw rocks. Right back at ya, big guy.

"US Airways Group Inc said it would reduce flying this year, joining United Continental Holdings and other carriers that have already outlined capacity curbs.

US Airways said its fourth-quarter system capacity would be down as much as 2 percent from previously expected levels..."

Times are tough.

How is the sunset provision going for the Ual pilots. I have heard that they can furlough only former United pilots by the end of the year. Is this true?

Cal, Ual pilots transition agreement

 

[Phoenix]

They used a lot of terms, insert them into any context you like if it makes you feel better.

They only made one ruling, that the case was not ripe.

They never said, as you imply, that the West did not have a case.

Who implied the West doesn't have a case? Of course the West can have a case in due time. The 9th laid out the timing and the standard of DFR very clearly, but supposedly that is extraneous to the only thing they said, "not ripe".

After a couple of million dollars, and the prima facie evidence of more than 1300 pages on this board, some still believe the 9th never said "internal union dispute", and if they had said so, of course they didn't because they didn't say anything accept "not ripe".

Imagine what things would be like if we actually came up with some internal union disputes.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hey "Rockford " what is your infatuation with NOS?

Like you, he doesn't do the manly thing and have support for his accusations but instead acts like a child saying whatever comes to mind. So if you know so much about me for a fact, lay that fact that I voted for the B-scale on the table. As for your lame theory that lack of denial proves anything, shall I list all the things that I haven't denied doing so you can call the police to take me away? More likely it's just an excuse for you having no proof.


Nos, I see you've come back to play your childish games. Where's that proof I've been waiting on for months now?

Jim

 

[FL430]

What a pathetically absurd statement. So in your bizzaro world, an accusation not denied becomes a factual statement? So anyone can claim anything against anyone and is guilty as charged unless it is denied?

There is no wonder you guys are where you are.

Wrong! Actually it happens all the time - if you would open your eyes you would see what actually happens outside of your UAL world with your obsession of US Airways pilots.

A good friend is a homicide detective and he uses this tactic as an investigative tool - it works like this: A man is suspected of murdering his wife - the investigators inform the man his wife is dead ( instead of murdered ) the man asks " who do they think killed her? " Instead of asking how she died. ( Because secretly he already knows how she died ) .The investigators say they never said she was murdered. Deer in the headlights look! More often than not it leads them to the guilty person my friend says.

I used the same method on Jim to expose his hypocrosy, he fell for it too. Instead of denying the allegation ( because he knows he is guilty ), he goes on some rant about Nos and accusations of proof. What he fails to realize is what people remember about him (multiple people ) - and their ability to recall facts from years ago. It is a small world Jim.

And naturally, you Jetz that knows nothing about his past deaiings with co-workers rushes to defend him with no facts of your own.

 

[sumadarson]

Like you, he doesn't do the manly thing and have support for his accusations but instead acts like a child saying whatever comes to mind. So if you know so much about me for a fact, lay that fact that I voted for the B-scale on the table. As for your lame theory that lack of denial proves anything, shall I list all the things that I haven't denied doing so you can call the police to take me away? More likely it's just an excuse for you having no proof.


Nos, I see you've come back to play your childish games. Where's that proof I've been waiting on for months now?

Jim

I have no record of you providing a link to one of your opinions, which everyone has. Your opinions seem to be large.

Ask traderjack how he likes the bos overnights he has all the time in the 190.

 

[BoeingBoy]

It is a small world Jim.

Well, yours is indeed a small world if you only know 6 people who know me out of the thousands I flew with/trained over the course of my career. But let me guess - they go by Nosum, Barrister, Black Swan, and a few other names here....

Jim