US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Sure you say that neither one is 100% fair, but we know how you'll vote if given the chance - you've never said that you would vote against a contract just because it had USAPA's DOH based list in it.

I think you've become a bitter argumentative young man. Quote your own words and you'll claim that words are being put in your mouth or deny saying it - anything to be obstinate. Maybe it's you that needs some time away from here....

Jim

You are not as clever as you think you are.

Why would I vote against a contract with DOH in it if the economic package was right? As I said, I won't have a multiple choice vote where I get to choice a seniority system that I think is most fair. Right now it looks like it will have the Nic or DOH. DOH is a better deal for me than the Nic, but if I do vote for it I will be voting with the awareness that it will trigger the end game of DFR II, and I have no idea how that will turn out.

 

[Pi brat]

None of this is doing any of us any good and maybe Boeing Boy is right and I do need a break. I will leave things as they are. If anyone wants to reply to any of my posts and would like an answer, pm me.

 

[prechilill]

A little Halcion will help too!

 

[PullUp]

Leonidas Update: March 21, 2011

The long anticipated Third Issue of the Leonidas Brochure series is out. Issue III is 30 pages of facts spread among ten sections. We start with numerous quotes made by Cleary and Mowrey, which directly contradict everything they, USAPA, and USAPA's original founders have ever said about DOH. The next section covers blatant contradictions made by Lee Seham regarding the injustice suffered by the TWA pilots because they were denied the opportunity to arbitrate seniority.

The remaining eight sections cover:

- What the East representatives knew before entering the seniority arbitration.
- The US Airways Declaratory Action lawsuit.
- An analysis of USAPA's Date-of-Hire "Conditions and Restrictions”.
- Comparative charts showing the real history of the East and West pilot groups, as well as the thermometer charts comparing the Nicolau to DOH.
- Comparative salaries, including a chart that references all of the airlines that have received pay increases since 2008.
- Pay Parity and Retroactive Pay.
- The Kirby proposal from the West perspective.
- What USAPA has promised compared with what has been achieved.
- The realities of the Addington litigation.
- The need for unity, professionalism, and moving ahead together.

The brochures were mailed to the East Pilots last Friday. We should be getting the West copies Wednesday afternoon and we will begin distributing them immediately.

In closing, we wish to thank the vast majority of West pilots who contribute financially to this legal effort. It's because of your support that we can afford to assemble the facts of this East/West seniority dispute into the readable booklet that is Brochure III. We believe you will be as energized as we are when you read this latest publication.

Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC

More trashcan filler.
sheesh.

 

[767jetz]

Your lack of denial to said allegations is the proof.

What a pathetically absurd statement. So in your bizzaro world, an accusation not denied becomes a factual statement? So anyone can claim anything against anyone and is guilty as charged unless it is denied?

There is no wonder you guys are where you are.

 

[767jetz]

ITT News Update (USAPIANS Warring): March 20, 2011

See Story

I'm starting to like his material. Very well done. The best was a quote at the very end.

"We've learned to enjoy the view from our sidelines..., we will wait for the courts to render their decisions, and for the west to be returned their rights to fair representation, and a seniority list that was never yours to take."

That just about sums the whole thing up. The rest of the banter here is nothing but white noise. All the foot-stomping in the world will not change the course or the destination. Enjoy the ride.

 

[Freebird]

More trashcan filler.
sheesh.

Its the reality you choose to embrace supporting USAPA.


USAPA = Who's USAPA? And why are we still on LOA93?

 

[Freebird]

Wrong again, but hey, when has that ever stopped you?

I've made it very clear that I don't think DOH is the only way to integrate a seniority list(it can be, it depends) and in this case I understand the west pilot's concerns. That doesn't mean I like the Nic or think he got it all right, and when the time comes to vote on a contract, I will weigh what is best for me, my family and my friends.

Fortunately, niether did the mutually selected arbitrator. His method was deemed the most fair to both groups considering the outlook and expectations. Read the entire award to get the facts.

I will not have the option of picking a seniority list to go with that contract, that will be decided for me. I will have no choice, as you claimed. If I had a choice, we wouldn't be here right now.

The seniority was decided for you, by George Nicolau and neutrals, via the East MEC and West MEC. You and your pals had a choice during the merger process, but you continue to choose ignorance to the facts. You chose to demand DOH and you chose wrong.

As of today I cannot see a contract the the company will accept that will make accepting the Nic worth is for me.

And Doug Parker thanks you for saving him money. Money that you will never recoup. Your reckless leaders are afraid to put up a contract for a vote, why? (pssssssssst, because it will PASS).

Is that clear to you? Stop twisting my words.

USAPA = Making enemies since day O-N-E.

 

[flypg]

A little Halcion will help too!

Says Tuts, on Prozac...

 

[flypg]

As the Easties are now receiving their Leonidas updates let's recall all the tough talk after the last mailing: Complaints to the USPS, chief pilots, DOL, DOJ, NASA, AOPA, and many lawsuits. The result: another Army of Leonidas mailing. Boy are they scared of the Easties.

ps. Did I ever mention how y'all could've had a raise in 2007 but instead walked out of joint negotiations? You'll get your pay parity when you've earned it.

You maybe on furlough, again, before that happens...

 

[nic4us]

You maybe on furlough, again, before that happens...

It always cracks me up when ignorant east posters make this statement. Cleardirect and myself have been the most common target. Now, 717, another West pilot who has not been furloughed gets in on the action.

Here is my reply.

Well junior, there are West pilots who have been labeled as furloughed that have not seen the right seat or reserve in over 20 years, and scumbags like you are not going to steal their job, no matter how many times you quip "welcome back from furlough".

PS. welcome back from furlough, that job you are holding belongs to a furlouged West pilot.

 

[Ames]

Yeah, the reality that you are not taking my seat any time soon.

When will you get it through your thick head? No one wants your fr%^$&*g seat. We just don't want any of you eastholes to take ours. I'lll keep my left seat in PHX over one anywhere else in the system any day. Under DOH I get usurped by guys who were on furlough priior to this fiasco. A '99 hire would be around 700 numbers senior to me, so who is taking whose seat?

 

[exB717Flyer]

You maybe on furlough, again, before that happens...

I was never furloughed from AWA. Got close but it never happened. Got anything else smart to say, Mr. Internet Message Board Tough Guy?

 

[Ames]

How is that it was supposedly DOH or nothing when the final offer was LOS?

From page 8 of the Nicolau award:

“ The US Airways initial proposal was grounded on a pilot’s Date of Hire adjusted for Length of Service.”


What do you think 1984's theory that if USAPA would come off DOH towards LOS, some on the west would join in? I have never heard that from a SINGLE WEST PILOT.

Read post 10555 above. Proof that your side would not come off of their position. Now read the post I made that you refer to. I said that the west merger committee offered to discuss LOS during negotiations and the east MC refused. I DID NOT say anyone on the west was now willing to come off of Nic. Negotiations are long finished, arbitration is settled and the west has no reason in the world to EVER come off of their position, especially after all that your side has done.

I commended 1984 for seeing the forest for the trees, something you, evidently are unable to do.

I also recognize your pattern of misstating my words in hope that I would not correct you. Keep trying oh master of obfuscation. You're a gem.

 

[Ames]

Here is a reminder of the west's most generous offer from page 14(of my copy) of the Nicolau award. The America West proposal would have placed 2431 US Airways pilots on the bottom of the list, 959 of whom were active on May 19, 2005. Notice the line where it says "America West's position was not substantially modified".

You provide proof that you should be thankful to Mr. Nicolau for his wisdom and fairness.