US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

I think I will start with that Usapian shadow box stocked by Cleary's PHX lapdog, Corey. You know, the wasted space in the PHX crew room nobody pays attention to.

I think I will ask our Chief Pilot if I can have it when Usapa lies in the ashes of failed totalitarian regimes.

I may need it for target practice.

A simple "you're welcome" would have sufficed. Again, many thanks for your contributions. Your contribution means a lot to us freeloaders.

 

[Phoenix]

Not entirely. Six and a half years on a BK contract has probably lowered expectations down to the desperation level for most East pilots outside of the Angry F/O club. USAPA's glaring vulnerability is their inability to deliver a contract. Heck, they haven't delivered anything for any Airways pilots, East and West.

Kind of defeats the "fragmentation" theory, doesn't it.

No. Freund never said anything like that. Disagree? Well Mr. Eastie.....LET'S SEE THE PROOF!

You should use spell check. "POOF" doesn't have an "R".

 

[CactusPilot1]

A simple "you're welcome" would have sufficed. Again, many thanks for your contributions. Your contribution means a lot to us freeloaders.

I plan on doing a little freeloading myself. Going to take a page from ALPA freeloaders during the last card drive. I think I will take a dues free vacation.

I'm sure I am not the only one who feels the same way.

What's good for the goose....

 

[BoeingBoy]

Why does it make sense to split East West vs. an intra East split?

What good did that scope and change of control language do you in the last merger?

To expand on what I said, the usual purpose of fragmentation is to keep the doors open a little longer (TWA, Eastern, etc). That means that whatever is sold off raises money. We keep hearing how the West is non-profitable (despite Parker saying differently) so who's going to pay for something that loses money? There are no West route authorities that are worth money. There's one or two beyond perimeter slots in DCA that might be worth something but they're collateral for loans (as is everything but pencils and paperclips) so how much money would they bring in?

To sell something to raise cash means Shuttle, TA route authorities and slots that the East has. Notice that fragmention protection starts at what...20%. US could sell select East assets without triggering that.

To play devil's advocate for a second though, suppose the West was sold off. What do you think would happen to the East - that all powerful franchise that was such a profit center that it entered bankruptcy twice in five years and was out of money to emerge without the merger?

Personally I think Parker likes being an airline CEO - US just isn't big enough for his ego. But US doesn't have the funds to buy anyone else that would stoke that ego. And the Easties here should forget about merging with any bigger airline using DOH - their pilots would laugh you out of the room.

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

"package" s

The East just benefits from what they brought to the merger, as the West is. Are you not confident in the West operation? Do you need the East to further your career?

Uhhhhh....East brought airplane returns, downgrades, 1500+ furloughed pilots, concessionary contract for themselves, etc. The east pilot group has won the lottery ticket with the merger and enjoyed the windfall created by the synergies. I'm with Cactus1.....oh to be early 2005 and have Doug Parker look again and just shake his head.

USAPA...........What can we steal from you today?

 

[Phoenix]

Uhhhhh....East brought airplane returns, downgrades, 1500+ furloughed pilots, concessionary contract for themselves, etc. The east pilot group has won the lottery ticket with the merger and enjoyed the windfall created by the synergies. I'm with Cactus1.....oh to be early 2005 and have Doug Parker look again and just shake his head.

USAPA...........What can we steal from you today?

Separate ops ever since the announced merger (ps. didn't you mean acquisition?)... no East furloughs (even though the West is flying a disproportionate number of East routes). I hear the West guys are complaining about the large number of 4 day trips and were told too bad, we need you to do long trips so we can efficiently keep you flying on the East route system.)

If something was stolen from you maybe you should go to court to get it back.

 

[cleardirect]

You must be envious of a seat out East, sure sounds that way. How long have you been with AWA and in this industry? If Parker needs or wants this thing as one, he will make an offer we (East and West) can't refuse. Sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

Was is not the West's ALPA Lawyer Freund who said the "West has everything to lose"?

Any way need to go and enjoy the weekend here.

Sure! Another crew room theory. I tell you what. There should be another crew room visit next week in CLT. You guys go to Parker and ask him and encourage him to take that option. I will want for his answer.

Better yet why not go to the all power usapa and demand that they go to the company and break up this marriage. Let's see what kind of influence this union has.

Do all of you east pilots have reading comprehension problems or just the people on this board?

How did you get envious from my post? I am encouraging you guys to demand from your union and from Parker that he splits this place up. You do understand that if he frags it like you want you take you seats and leave right? How would we be envious of seat that are not here?

As far as Freund say what he said. Show us the proof. In what context did he say it? We know how you east guys have trouble understanding what is said and written.

 

[Pi brat]

Uhhhhh....East brought airplane returns, downgrades, 1500+ furloughed pilots, concessionary contract for themselves, etc. The east pilot group has won the lottery ticket with the merger and enjoyed the windfall created by the synergies. I'm with Cactus1.....oh to be early 2005 and have Doug Parker look again and just shake his head.

USAPA...........What can we steal from you today?

Amazing. You are correct. Coming into this merger the east brought all that, but what lottery ticket have we won? We are still smaller than in 2005, as I showed you. We still work under LOA 93, subsidizing the west and high fuel costs. It is clear, to all that wish to see it, that this merger kept us all in a job. You are just mad because you feel that you haven't cashed YOUR lottery ticket, but really you did. Without this merger, and the aftermath, you would be in line behind us looking for a job.

If Doug had shook his head in 2005 you would probably still be looking for a job.

Are you a F/O? Just curious.

 

[Pi brat]

Do all of you east pilots have reading comprehension problems or just the people on this board?

How did you get envious from my post? I am encouraging you guys to demand from your union and from Parker that he splits this place up. You do understand that if he frags it like you want you take you seats and leave right? How would we be envious of seat that are not here?

As far as Freund say what he said. Show us the proof. In what context did he say it? We know how you east guys have trouble understanding what is said and written.

Did I miss your post about the major legal setback that USAPA didn't tell us about?

 

[cleardirect]

Did I miss your post about the major legal setback that USAPA didn't tell us about?

usapa the best money the east ever spent right. You guys have lawyers and communication guys on full time FPL. A whole structure to inform the masses of what your union is spending money for. Why rely on a west pilots to tell you what is going on with your union.

Call your rep, call your lawyer. This is your "better" union make them respond to you. Don't forget to ask why it took them a week to explain it.

 

[cleardirect]

Why does it make sense to split East West vs. an intra East split? The answer lies in the respective sections of each collective bargaining agreement. Section 1, East is a robust section. It represents a history dating back to 1950 when ALPA was first on the property. It has substantial protections that have survived two bankruptcies. Some significant provisions of this section include:

SECTION 1 - RECOGNITION, SCOPE, SUCCESSORSHIP AND LPPS:
5. Restrictions on code share with domestic carriers.
6. Restrictions on code share with international carriers.
C. Successorship and Labor Protection – Allegheny Mohawk 3/13 provisions
Change in Control – 50% or more of effected assets and triggers a 4.5% raise for each year after.
(F) Other protections – 20% of assets, within 12 months, sells transfers or disposes – the Association shall determine at its sole discretion where the pilots go.

LOS 63-Contingent Acquisition Rights – CAR’s - Payment and Board Representation Rights: On the day immediately preceding the occurrence of an Acquisition Triggering Event, the Company shall pay into an escrow account (in form and substance satisfactory to ALPA with an escrow agent subject to approval by ALPA) to be released to ALPA upon the occurrence of an Acquisition Triggering Event, $250 million to be allocated among pilots as determined by ALPA ( LOA63)



McCaskill Bond Provisions
(4) COVERED TRANSACTION- The term `covered transaction' means--
(A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and which
(B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of--
(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or
(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.
(d) Application- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.

(the west could be spun off without trigger this requirement of the amendment.)

WOW! That sounds really good. Guess you east guys have the company by the short hairs now. Come on big boys bust a move. Demand that your union goes to the company and forces this airline to split. Go to the crew news and start telling Doug to frag this pig so we can move on. Let’s go, all of you east pilots show us what you got. I am tired of listening to you talk big, make a move.

You get Parker to frag this and the law suit goes away the west goes away. You can than deal with AA or DAL or UAL and you can really show the world what usapa can do from the start with a merger. Go get the DOH boys.

But put up or shut up. I want to see you east guys finally stand up and show some results instead of just mouthing off. Perhaps that is all you have is running your mouths.

 

[nic4us]

america west pilots are whining about not having a contract and at the same time are doing everything to stifle the ability of its possibility. Immature idiots you are.

Sumanderson,

Schizophrenia called,,,,they want their delusions back.

 

[Pi brat]

usapa the best money the east ever spent right. You guys have lawyers and communication guys on full time FPL. A whole structure to inform the masses of what your union is spending money for. Why rely on a west pilots to tell you what is going on with your union.

Call your rep, call your lawyer. This is your "better" union make them respond to you. Don't forget to ask why it took them a week to explain it.

Where did I say USAPA was the best money I ever spent? Nothing to do with any union will ever be the best money I ever spent. That honor would go to money spent on my family. But pulling stuff out of your rear has never stopped you before....

It must not be too big because I believe you would be the first one crowing about it.

More wasted space.

 

[nic4us]

usapa the best money the east ever spent right. You guys have lawyers and communication guys on full time FPL. A whole structure to inform the masses of what your union is spending money for. Why rely on a west pilots to tell you what is going on with your union.

Call your rep, call your lawyer. This is your "better" union make them respond to you. Don't forget to ask why it took them a week to explain it.

Clear,

If you have something, go ahead and post it. I would like to see what you are talking about, as I am not finding anything.

 

[Pi brat]

Come on big boys bust a move. Demand that your union goes to the company and forces this airline to split.

Geez. "Bust a move". It gets better every day.