US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

I have a box of Soviet era pins given to me by Russian and Ukranian pilots. They did not need those pins anymore since the communist lie collapsed on itself.

I think I will make a new box, a trophy case of sorts as a memorial to this little Usapian experiment fails as a result of it's lies and deception.

It's only a matter of time. B)

Yeah, yeah, just a matter of time. Speaking of time... while you are biding time, please join the rest of us in making the observation that your avatar is apropos.

Advanced contributor... such a generous bloke to many endeavors of perceived value. I for one offer many sincere thanks!

 

[CactusPilot1]

Yeah, yeah, just a matter of time. Speaking of time... while you are biding time, please join the rest of us in making the observation that your avatar is apropos.

Advanced contributor... such a generous bloke to many endeavors of perceived value. I for one offer many sincere thanks!

I think I will start with that Usapian shadow box stocked by Cleary's PHX lapdog, Corey. You know, the wasted space in the PHX crew room nobody pays attention to.

I think I will ask our Chief Pilot if I can have it when Usapa lies in the ashes of failed totalitarian regimes.

I may need it for target practice.

 

[No Land Green]

There is no doubt that the company has benefited from the delay and cheap LOA 93 labor. They obviously have put the for sale sign up in Tempe and I think of that every time I turn the logo light on. They want this thing wrapped up in a pretty little package.

USAPA has benefited from all these delays as well. Their buddy Seham still has a job along with his puppets in CLT.

"package" s

The East just benefits from what they brought to the merger, as the West is. Are you not confident in the West operation? Do you need the East to further your career?

 

[CactusPilot1]

"package" s

The East just benefits from what they brought to the merger, as the West is. Are you not confident in the West operation? Do you need the East to further your career?

I don't want anything from the East. I'd be happy to go back prior to 2005, a time when I did not need Nic or Leonidas to protect my career from a land grab.

Pure unabated greed.

 

[cleardirect]

america west pilots are whining about not having a contract and at the same time are doing everything to stifle the ability of its possibility. Immature idiots you are.

america west pilot, whining about a contract

Hey usapa shill. Answer this. Prove that the west is stifling the contract.

It is the east that controls the BPR. It is only east pilots on the NC. The west is a minority. What is it that we are doing to stifle the contract?

So you are left with name calling now. Running out of arguments I guess.

BTW shill. When is the all mighty usapa going to inform the masses about the latest legal set back? Just going to ignore that little event?

 

[No Land Green]

I don't want anything from the East. I'd be happy to go back prior to 2005, a time when I did not need Nic or Leonidas to protect my career from a land grab.

Pure unabated greed.

Great Post!!! It also applies to the East side, you couldn't have stated it better. Well fragmentation will enable that and all we'll all be happy again. Have a great weekend!!!

I'm off to enjoy the great weather here on the East Coast.

 

[cleardirect]

Management does not want a joint agreement. They want the fragmentation option. The offer they made AFA validates that.

Sure! Another crew room theory. I tell you what. There should be another crew room visit next week in CLT. You guys go to Parker and ask him and encourage him to take that option. I will wait for his answer.

Better yet why not go to the all power usapa and demand that they go to the company and break up this marriage. Let's see what kind of influence this union has.

 

[No Land Green]

Sure! Another crew room theory. I tell you what. There should be another crew room visit next week in CLT. You guys go to Parker and ask him and encourage him to take that option. I will want for his answer.

Better yet why not go to the all power usapa and demand that they go to the company and break up this marriage. Let's see what kind of influence this union has.

You must be envious of a seat out East, sure sounds that way. How long have you been with AWA and in this industry? If Parker needs or wants this thing as one, he will make an offer we (East and West) can't refuse. Sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

Was is not the West's ALPA Lawyer Freund who said the "West has everything to lose"?

Any way need to go and enjoy the weekend here.

 

[Ames]

Management does not want a joint agreement. They want the fragmentation option. The offer they made AFA validates that.

Yes, and now yet another mental giant claims to know what others want. Negotiations 101. Not mindreading 101.

 

[Ames]

I don't want anything from the East. I'd be happy to go back prior to 2005, a time when I did not need Nic or Leonidas to protect my career from a land grab.

Pure unabated greed.

Me too. It would be very interesting to see where the eastholes would be right now should that have happened.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Great Post!!! It also applies to the East side, you couldn't have stated it better. Well fragmentation will enable that and all we'll all be happy again. Have a great weekend!!!

I'm off to enjoy the great weather here on the East Coast.

Enjoy yourself, looks like y'all have some great weather to enjoy.

Be easy on those evil Westies when you are sitting around the campfire, telling stories.

 

[Ames]

Great Post!!! It also applies to the East side, you couldn't have stated it better. Well fragmentation will enable that and all we'll all be happy again. Have a great weekend!!!

I'm off to enjoy the great weather here on the East Coast.

Yes, it does apply to the east side as well. Man, I wish we could go back in time! As I have already said I would love to see where you guys would be right now without this "merger". I am "supremely confident" that you would be just exactly where you deserve to be.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Me too. It would be very interesting to see where the eastholes would be right now should that have happened.

LIQUIDATION

 

[aquagreen73s]

If Parker needs or wants this thing as one, he will make an offer we (East and West) can't refuse.

Not entirely. Six and a half years on a BK contract has probably lowered expectations down to the desperation level for most East pilots outside of the Angry F/O club. USAPA's glaring vulnerability is their inability to deliver a contract. Heck, they haven't delivered anything for any Airways pilots, East and West.

Sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

Kind of defeats the "fragmentation" theory, doesn't it.

Was is not the West's ALPA Lawyer Freund who said the "West has everything to lose"?

No. Freund never said anything like that. Disagree? Well Mr. Eastie.....LET'S SEE THE PROOF!

 

[Al Legheny]

In your world I'm sure it does...

Jim

Why does it make sense to split East West vs. an intra East split? The answer lies in the respective sections of each collective bargaining agreement. Section 1, East is a robust section. It represents a history dating back to 1950 when ALPA was first on the property. It has substantial protections that have survived two bankruptcies. Some significant provisions of this section include:

SECTION 1 - RECOGNITION, SCOPE, SUCCESSORSHIP AND LPPS:
5. Restrictions on code share with domestic carriers.
6. Restrictions on code share with international carriers.
C. Successorship and Labor Protection – Allegheny Mohawk 3/13 provisions
Change in Control – 50% or more of effected assets and triggers a 4.5% raise for each year after.
(F) Other protections – 20% of assets, within 12 months, sells transfers or disposes – the Association shall determine at its sole discretion where the pilots go.

LOS 63-Contingent Acquisition Rights – CAR’s - Payment and Board Representation Rights: On the day immediately preceding the occurrence of an Acquisition Triggering Event, the Company shall pay into an escrow account (in form and substance satisfactory to ALPA with an escrow agent subject to approval by ALPA) to be released to ALPA upon the occurrence of an Acquisition Triggering Event, $250 million to be allocated among pilots as determined by ALPA ( LOA63)

(I) Remedies

The Company and US Airways Group agree to arbitrate any grievance filed by the Association alleging a violation of this Section 1 on an expedited basis directly before the System Board of Adjustment sitting with a neutral arbitrator. The dispute shall be heard expeditiously no later than 15 days following the submission to the System Board and decided expeditiously no later than 30 days after submission, unless the parties agree otherwise in writing


West Section 1 Language-
SECTION 1
RECOGNITION, SCOPE AND MANAGEMENT RIGHTS
Aircraft Transfers - Pilots must be current and qualified to transfer with the equipment, does not address transfer if the pilot is not qualified.

iii. Nothing in this Subsection 1.C.1. shall be applicable to the Company’s return of aircraft to a lessor, even if the lessor is an air carrier ( no protections in the event aircraft are returned to lessors)

2. In the event of a complete merger between the Company and another air carrier (i.e., the combination
of all or substantially all the assets of the two carriers) where the surviving carrier decides to integrate the pre-merger operations, the following procedures will apply: (1) if the Company is the surviving carrier, the Company will integratet he two Pilot groups in accordance with Association Merger Policy if both groups are represented by the Association, and in accordance with Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny Mohawk LPP’s if pilots of the Company’s merger partner are not represented by the Association, and (2) if the Company is not the surviving carrier, the Company will make reasonable efforts to have the surviving carrier integrate the two pilot groups in the same
manner as stated in (1) of this paragraph.

McCaskill Bond Provisions
(4) COVERED TRANSACTION- The term `covered transaction' means--
(A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier; and which
(B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of--
(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or
(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.
(d) Application- This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.

(the west could be spun off without trigger this requirement of the amendment.)


H. RETAINED MANAGEMENT RIGHTS
1. Except as restricted by the express terms of this Agreement, the Company shall retain all rights to manage and operate its business and work force, including but not limited to the right to sell or discontinue all or part of the business; to sell or lease aircraft or facilities; to determine where and when to operate scheduled or unscheduled flights; to determine its marketing methods and strategies, and to enter into code sharing, affiliation or marketing
agreements with other carriers; to invest (including equity investments) in other business entities including,
without limitation, other air carriers; and to determine the type of aircraft it will utilize.

2. The exercise of any right reserved herein to management in a particular manner, or the non-exercise
of such right, shall not operate as a waiver of the Company’s rights hereunder, or preclude the Company from exercising the right in a different manner.

3. The parties agree that any past practices established prior to the date of this Agreement shall not create any contractual or legal obligation to continue such practices following the effective date of this Agreement.

There is no such management Rights provision in the East Contract.