US Pilots Labor Discussion

[sumadarson]

Army of Leonidas fine print

 

[BoeingBoy]

....

Darn, Nos came for a drive-by and threw out 1 stink bomb then left...

Still waiting on that proof you claim to always provide - seems it's missing as usual...

 

[CallawayGolf]

Yep, and the company has been told that the contact gets more expensive every day they drag it out.

The probability of you cashing that check before mandatory retirement is exceedingly slim. USAPA isn't even trying to get a contract for you.

 

[cactusboy53]

Army of Leonidas fine print

 

[aquagreen73s]

Army of Leonidas fine print

Do you really have nothing better to do with your life?

 

[CactusPilot1]

Oh, so now we are negotiating through web chat boards? Leave the negotiating to the negotiators.

USAPA's negotiating committee is doing a good job, despite the legal delays. The slow pace is being set by the mediator and the company, not the union.
Perhaps the company is frustrated by a union that cannot be influenced via a national office, ala ALPo.
Cheers.

If there ever was a union that needed a referee and a penalty box for bad behavior, USAPA is the posterchild. A union influenced by an attorney who is feasting on your hard earned dues telling you whatever you want to hear.

Meanwhile, Parker laughs all the way to the bank.

Keep up the good work, girls.

 

[Code Name V]

They will never get a contract. They are WEAK, the company plays on this fact. They point at Leonidas for their failures and make West pilots scapegoats. It is a true excercise in deflection. Funny thing, they made ALPA the scapegoat, Nic the scapegoat as well. Their egos and self-importance is really getting the best of them. We all see it. Protecting the inner circle of UHL's and their coveted and overrated legal team. Now they buddy up with Teamsters (there is a badge of honor, LOL) as an attempt to stay in power if (when) USAPA gets booted off this property.

The only thing the company is betting on is your constant contempt and the hope that you will become the scabs that you endorse. You want to be a self fulling prophesy. You think if you say it enough, it will come true, just like the Nic.

Fortunately, the reality is that success will occur with or without you. I suspect without and thats fine.

I really don't think it matters anyway as the constant barrage of BS that comes from the west is just more and more fodder to insure separate ops forever.

LOA 93 results will be announced soon and the results of that decision will lay the course for future negotiations and will provide incentive or disincentive to negotiate.

You must truly be worried about it as your desperation is showing.

As far as the Teamsters; you best worry a little there too as whatever horsepower you perceive to be lacking will also be eliminated when you have the 900# gorilla on your side.

V

 

[CallawayGolf]

The only thing the company is betting on is your constant contempt and the hope that you will become the scabs that you endorse. You want to be a self fulling prophesy. You think if you say it enough, it will come true, just like the Nic.

Fortunately, the reality is that success will occur with or without you. I suspect without and thats fine.

I really don't think it matters anyway as the constant barrage of BS that comes from the west is just more and more fodder to insure separate ops forever.

LOA 93 results will be announced soon and the results of that decision will lay the course for future negotiations and will provide incentive or disincentive to negotiate.

You must truly be worried about it as your desperation is showing.

As far as the Teamsters; you best worry a little there too as whatever horsepower you perceive to be lacking will also be eliminated when you have the 900# gorilla on your side.

V

Pipe dreams aplenty I see.

USAPA will never be successful in negotiating a JCBA so long as they push for an illegal use of a DOH seniority system which neither Management nor at least 1/3 of the pilots would be willing support. That leads us to LOA93 which will most likely be the east pilots’ lot in life until USAPA accepts the NIC and begins to engage in true good faith negotiations. The Kasher results should indeed be out sometime this year but, short of a miracle, the east will end up with nothing in return. $eham will be well-compensated for that little jackalope hunting excursion, but the east pilots will just be hapless victims in that little scheme.

Now the Teamsters do bring a more ominous name to the situation compared to USAPA (much the same way as Pee Wee Herman has a more ominous name than USAPA), but they can’t correct the inherent weakness created by 33-49% of pilots not supporting their own union’s negotiating strategy. The west isn’t desperate and has no need to be; the east however, should be desperate given the insurmountable issues they face in actually seeing a better paycheck, yet they continue in the Bagdad Bob tradition of denying the truth that is barreling down on them. No surprise really given the history of this group.

 

[CactusPilot1]

The only thing the company is betting on is your constant contempt and the hope that you will become the scabs that you endorse.

You must truly be worried about it as your desperation is showing.

As far as the Teamsters; you best worry a little there too as whatever horsepower you perceive to be lacking will also be eliminated when you have the 900# gorilla on your side.

Go ahead big tough guy, run to the Teamsters

I'll be happy to throw the stop sticks in front of your Yugo and your piece of doggy doo association.

No escaping binding arbitration no matter who's skirt you hide under.

 

[Code Name V]

Pipe dreams aplenty I see.

USAPA will never be successful in negotiating a JCBA so long as they push for an illegal use of a DOH seniority system which neither Management nor at least 1/3 of the pilots would be willing support. That leads us to LOA93 which will most likely be the east pilots’ lot in life until USAPA accepts the NIC and begins to engage in true good faith negotiations. The Kasher results should indeed be out sometime this year but, short of a miracle, the east will end up with nothing in return. $eham will be well-compensated for that little jackalope hunting excursion, but the east pilots will just be hapless victims in that little scheme.

Now the Teamsters do bring a more ominous name to the situation compared to USAPA (much the same way as Pee Wee Herman has a more ominous name than USAPA), but they can’t correct the inherent weakness created by 33-49% of pilots not supporting their own union’s negotiating strategy. The west isn’t desperate and has no need to be; the east however, should be desperate given the insurmountable issues they face in actually seeing a better paycheck, yet they continue in the Bagdad Bob tradition of denying the truth that is barreling down on them. No surprise really given the history of this group.

And therin lies your problem. Your perception that the Nic will somehow be 'accepted' and that the DOH w/C+Rs which are embedded in the bylaws of USAPA and 'must' be adhered to, will be ignored even if they could. In addition you believe that Parker must be lying (in itself, not unreasonable) when he and the 9th said that there will never be a joint contract with the Nic.

You also think that there can not be a contract whereas 1/3 will not support it (also not true as many of you will be better off and will support it) but you fail to recognize that same reasoning when 2/3 will not support it.

And you think we are delusional....

As always, this issue is a total waste of time. They will never be integrated.


V

 

[CallawayGolf]

And therin lies your problem. Your perception that the Nic will somehow be 'accepted' and that the DOH w/C+Rs which are embedded in the bylaws of USAPA and 'must' be adhered to, will be ignored even if they could. In addition you believe that Parker must be lying (in itself, not unreasonable) when he and the 9th said that there will never be a joint contract with the Nic.

You also think that there can not be a contract whereas 1/3 will not support it (also not true as many of you will be better off and will support it) but you fail to recognize that same reasoning when 2/3 will not support it.

And you think we are delusional....

As always, this issue is a total waste of time. They will never be integrated.


V

God alone knows the future, not the 9th circuit and not Doug Parker. If a TA went out today with NIC+Kirby, no one can say what the outcome would be. Now if LOA93 comes back with a full denial of USAPA’s request and/or Judge Silver refuses to grant Management immunity with a DOH system, then the odds of the NIC+Kirby passing a ratification vote rises substantially. Either way, no one knows what will or will not pass until a vote is actually taken. If the vote is anywhere close to the USAPA representational vote split, it would be very, very close which is a strong indication that the 9th has no idea what they were talking about. Why Parker would say this depends on the context of the situation where it was spoken.

You misunderstand or mischaracterize my position on the DOH contract. A DOH contract with unknown economics (cost-neutral, pie in the sky, whatever) would almost certainly pass ratification as you suggest. However, there are many, many more impediments to that actually occurring. First, Management must agree on USAPA’s DOH scheme which they have refused to do on legal grounds. Second, ratification of such a JCBA would immediately trigger the ripeness on DFR II which could well be fast-tracked before the effective date. Perhaps even a summary judgment with an immediate injunction against USAPA and US to prevent its implementation. Of course this is all hypothetical since the odds of USAPA getting to that point are infinitesimally small.

The groups will be integrated at some point. You east guys keep talking about the west “owning the airline” in a decade or so. It may well take that long to remove the intransigent east from the property through mandatory retirements, but that isn’t “never” as you suggest. However, your claim that they will never be put together belies the confidence you have (or don’t have) towards USAPA being successful, which the exact point I was making earlier - USAPA will never be successful.

 

[cleardirect]

The only thing the company is betting on is your constant contempt and the hope that you will become the scabs that you endorse. You want to be a self fulling prophesy. You think if you say it enough, it will come true, just like the Nic.

Fortunately, the reality is that success will occur with or without you. I suspect without and thats fine.

I really don't think it matters anyway as the constant barrage of BS that comes from the west is just more and more fodder to insure separate ops forever.

LOA 93 results will be announced soon and the results of that decision will lay the course for future negotiations and will provide incentive or disincentive to negotiate.

You must truly be worried about it as your desperation is showing.

As far as the Teamsters; you best worry a little there too as whatever horsepower you perceive to be lacking will also be eliminated when you have the 900# gorilla on your side.

V

Do you honestly believe that usapa will be released for self help? Never going to happen. At least not for the next several 4-5 years. You can talk about it and pound your chest and threaten all day long. It is not a reality in our future.

Success. How is it you are going to define success? Separate ops on LOA 93 until you retire?

When LOA 93 is finally released (loser) how desperate will usapa be to get a contract? Any contract? Kirby, cost neutral.

IBT really. Not until the seniority is settled. They will hang around and talk but want nothing to do with this place until our little "problem" is finished.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

God alone knows the future, not the 9th circuit and not Doug Parker. If a TA went out today with NIC+Kirby, no one can say what the outcome would be. Now if LOA93 comes back with a full denial of USAPA’s request and/or Judge Silver refuses to grant Management immunity with a DOH system, then the odds of the NIC+Kirby passing a ratification vote rises substantially. Either way, no one knows what will or will not pass until a vote is actually taken. If the vote is anywhere close to the USAPA representational vote split, it would be very, very close which is a strong indication that the 9th has no idea what they were talking about. Why Parker would say this depends on the context of the situation where it was spoken.

You misunderstand or mischaracterize my position on the DOH contract. A DOH contract with unknown economics (cost-neutral, pie in the sky, whatever) would almost certainly pass ratification as you suggest. However, there are many, many more impediments to that actually occurring. First, Management must agree on USAPA’s DOH scheme which they have refused to do on legal grounds. Second, ratification of such a JCBA would immediately trigger the ripeness on DFR II which could well be fast-tracked before the effective date. Perhaps even a summary judgment with an immediate injunction against USAPA and US to prevent its implementation. Of course this is all hypothetical since the odds of USAPA getting to that point are infinitesimally small.

The groups will be integrated at some point. You east guys keep talking about the west “owning the airline” in a decade or so. It may well take that long to remove the intransigent east from the property through mandatory retirements, but that isn’t “never” as you suggest. However, your claim that they will never be put together belies the confidence you have (or don’t have) towards USAPA being successful, which the exact point I was making earlier - USAPA will never be successful.

It could be the union of the ever loving god and reconciling the East and West into the same flight decks looks to never be successful. So you might as well take shots at the almighty, like you do at USAPA.

 

[prechilill]

LOA93 for another couple of years, maybe even five or more. Just observing the non-progress of the east, kinda like walking backwards all the time.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It could be the union of the ever loving god and reconciling the East and West into the same flight decks looks to never be successful. So you might as well take shots at the almighty, like you do at USAPA.

Abort, Retry, Fail?

Want to try again with a coherent sentence structure? Other than asking me to criticize [God] Almighty, I have no idea what you were trying to communicate. Perhaps this will help though – God is far more interested in reconciling fallen humanity to Himself through His Son than He is in resolving secular disputes between two groups of pilots where the outcome has little to no eternal significance, save for the effect it may have on their individual hearts and personal conduct. However, I believe that if the leaders of USAPA truly sought to know God and His will in this situation, that the seniority issue would be quickly resolved and that a JCBA would be forthcoming in short order.