US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

I know we don't like facts to get in the way of this forum's rantings, but Lee Moak was elected MEC Chairman in October of 2005. Delta was in bankruptcy and US Airways was merged. It was actually US Airways that tried a hostile takeover of Delta with the plan to put 1/3 of our pilots on the street. Didn't hear a peep from Airways pilots over that plan. But keep ranting nonetheless if it makes you feel good.

Since you're advocating "facts", would you please provide the source for your assertion that 1/3 of the Delta pilots would have been "on the street" with the proposed US acquisition of DL?

 

[Ames]

Thanks for the reply. You see how the company and USAPA for that matter, keeps us both in the "dark" on how "things work?" I'm glad that the West has "discussed this many times", I suspect that those "discussions" have been "half hearted" at best. Just as they have been on the East! Lots of bla, bla, bla but no REAL effort to "make it happen". Would I take a $1,000 a month pay cut to bring back the rest of the East furloughed pilots? You bet your ass I would.

seajay

I don't believe that I could find ten people that would be willing to take a 1k/month pay cut to bring furloughed pilots back. You make talk big but when it comes to actually doing so.... doubtful. I can see you guys explaining to your families how they will have to sacrifice for the illusion that they are helping other pilots (who they most likely don't even know) when in actuality you are just helping the company.

This isn't working welfare. No one took any pay cuts to save my job when I was downgraded and furloughed throughout my career and I would never have wanted them to. You can pontificate in public all you want to but I don't think actions will follow.

Besides, US Airways pilots are known for throwing their junior pilots under the bus. Our current situation, where the east pilots are fighting like hell for the junior pilots is the exception. I think the reason for that is simply that east pilots want to beat the west pilots down regardless because east pilots view west as inferior, now worthy of breathing the same air, let alone sharing a seniority list.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Besides, US Airways pilots are known for throwing their junior pilots under the bus. Our current situation, where the east pilots are fighting like hell for the junior pilots is the exception. I think the reason for that is simply that east pilots want to beat the west pilots down regardless because east pilots view west as inferior, now worthy of breathing the same air, let alone sharing a seniority list.

I think you are on to something with attitudes like this:

"The simple reason you were hired by america west is, you were the bottom of the barrel in qualifications, period."

Our unqualified pilot group was able to retire with able to the America West operating certificate with out a fatal accident.

What a bonehead. :angry:

 

[oscarjazz]

Since you're advocating "facts", would you please provide the source for your assertion that 1/3 of the Delta pilots would have been "on the street" with the proposed US acquisition of DL?

It was from the business plan submitted by Parker to the UCC (unsecured creditor's committee) as part of the takeover attempt. They were going to eliminate the entire MD-88/90 fleet and much of our 757 fleet.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It was from the business plan submitted by Parker to the UCC (unsecured creditor's committee) as part of the takeover attempt. They were going to eliminate the entire MD-88/90 fleet and much of our 757 fleet.

True. I remember now but that didn't mean those would be Deta pilots taking the cut. Parker has a history of cajoling the larger pilot group. You might have lost those airplanes but believe me, as disorganized and emotional as the East is, it would have been the USAirways side that took the cuts.

 

[boeingplt]

MM and fellow pilots..


April 1st marks the beginning of the term of office for your new PHL representatives. Your outgoing reps are taking it as the deadline for any last minute agenda that they want to advance prior to their departure. They, specifically John Dubarry, are calling for a special BPR meeting for March 29. You need to ask yourself, why call a meeting with an expansive agenda two days before your new choices take office? The agenda items are so vague they could take this headhunt of a meeting anywhere but it includes an officer and committee code of conduct review, in other words they are planning to pick off a few folks on their way out the door while they still have the chance. Those on the BPR who want to see us change course, PHX in particular (this should tell you all you need to know about our course by the way), understand that when the new PHL reps take office the chances of disrupting our efforts diminish significantly.


These same PHL reps recently made a serious mistake when they published a public recrimination of USAPA leadership that was written by the self proclaimed leader of Leonidas. The pilots literally pounded them with critical emails and phone calls for days for publishing such a irresponsible public response to internal problems. But they didn’t get the message that you have had enough of ALPA style smear campaigns. By the way, if you want to know who is really behind this next destructive effort, just look to the ALPA smear experts in PHL, Ciabattoni, Manear et al.


Now there are a number of reasons that you should be outraged at this slimy behavior, among them is the plain fact that you have elected new representatives, who will take office two days after this special meeting. The outgoing PHL reps are acting in complete ignorance of the fact that you have chosen new reps to make decisions on your behalf and it is they who will have to pick up the pieces in the wake of Doug, Roger and John’s parting rampage. Did they even bother to consult with the new reps about the destructive agenda – NO! - they do not give a damn about the choice you have made for representation, they are going to “represent” you whether you like it or not right up until the very last minute that they have the power to do so, blind to the fact that you disagree with their agenda.


Their defense is that they represent you to the last day in office but this is utter BS. The bald faced truth is that they have thus far failed in their effort to topple the goals that you have set and the leadership structure of the union, an effort that was in absolute disregard of your calls and emails to them telling them to knock it off just a few weeks ago. This disregard for your instructions to them continues and has reached new heights in the form of this special meeting.


As a prelude to this special BPR meeting John, Doug, and Roger have called a PHL base meeting for March 24th. This is not a coincidence, that meeting is sure to be stacked with their minority sycophants who will bring prepackaged resolutions that they will then be “forced” to take to the BPR meeting the following week. The great irony in this is that they will go to that meeting touting that you demanded that these resolutions be carried forward - resolutions that are sure to be aimed at those John, Doug, Roger, and PHX have it in for.


It is impossible to understand what is motivating the current PHL reps. What is clear is that, in vintage ALPA style, they have allowed this to all become very personal and in the process have likely led themselves to believe that they can work with PHX to settle their personal vendettas in exchange for a compromise on the seniority issue. The real problem is that as they do so they need to make commitments with those who want your seniority. So as they take their parting shots, they are willing to place our long term goals in jeopardy. This is, of course, shockingly naive and profoundly dangerous. They are playing with fire in an undeniably reckless fashion and if they aren’t stopped your seniority is going to be torched.


If you want to put an end to this nonsense there are a few things that you can do. Forward this letter to everyone you know, call and email every rep on the BPR as well as the officers for starters. The very most important thing you can do however is show up at the PHL base meeting on the 24th, bring as many people with you as you can so that you outnumber the sympathizers, then get yourselves and your compatriots to the BPR meeting on the 28th and 29th in CLT. Send a strong message that you have had it with this BS.

Very Interesting

 

[sumadarson]

I know we don't like facts to get in the way of this forum's rantings, but Lee Moak was elected MEC Chairman in October of 2005. Delta was in bankruptcy and US Airways was merged. It was actually US Airways that tried a hostile takeover of Delta with the plan to put 1/3 of our pilots on the street. Didn't hear a peep from Airways pilots over that plan. But keep ranting nonetheless if it makes you feel good.

What peep did you expect to hear. You would have done the same, except you would have rationalized it. alpa and Leo will be voted out by A new union for delta soon.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Still spreading the bs I see. Where's the proof I requested Nos?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

What peep did you expect to hear. You would have done the same, except you would have rationalized it. alpa and Leo will be voted out by A new union for delta soon.

DALPO!

 

[cleardirect]

What peep did you expect to hear. You would have done the same, except you would have rationalized it. alpa and Leo will be voted out by A new union for delta soon.

Sounds to me like the same unrealized promises that usapa offered 3 years ago. We all know how that has turned out.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

United, American, and Delta should form their own union and let Alpo reform itself into whatever it decides to. Perhaps ALPO should become RALPO, for Regional Airline Pilots Association.

ALPO might very well be a dinosaur, and we just haven't realized it yet. I'm half serious, either the big 3 should boot the rest out, or splinter off and form *their* own union, leaving ALPO as we know it to fend for itself.

 

[cactusboy53]

What peep did you expect to hear. You would have done the same, except you would have rationalized it. alpa and Leo will be voted out by A new union for delta soon.

Oooooh and look at the whopping $20,201 they have collected for the new union! Let's compare what a gem USAPA is:

USAPA has financial transparency: We can figuratively see the truck loads of money being delivered to SSM & P's doorstep.

USAPA financial responsibility: Is it financially responsible to file an appeal to a case that is dismissed with prejudice?

Professional Negotiators...: Our three leaders in the NAC were furloughed from US Air at the merger announcement, and save for the current negotiations, have had no experience or training in formal negotiations. Am I not correct?

True "Bottom-Up" Representation: Well, I guess that part is true. USAPA positions & hierarchy is largely staffed with some of the most junior US Airways pilots (see professional negotiators).

Freedom to take back....: Freedom? Did someone mention Crimi?

Keep clickin' them heels Dorothy, Kansas is just around the corner.......

 

[Al Legheny]

Very Interesting

Yep. I praticularly like the part about being in a minority. As I recall it was a 2/3 majority that wanted the Office Location that means at least 8 of 11 had to vote that way. I understand that in this case it is 7 of 11 or almost 2/3 that want the meeting. So I guess it is not a minority that wants this meeting.

"It is impossible to understand what is motivating the current PHL reps. What is clear is that, in vintage ALPA style, they have allowed this to all become very personal and in the process have likely led themselves to believe that they can work with PHX to settle their personal vendettas in exchange for a compromise on the seniority issue."

Consider that two of these PHL reps and for bothe reps in DCA are all founders of the Union. There is only one rep in PHL that was a founding member of the BPR. The others have all been there since the begining of USAPA. They were all present at the very first meeting before the union was even certified. Could it be that they sense something wrong with our Union? As for ALPA games, none of these persons has even been an ALPA representative or commitee head or even Vce chair. However the current President, Vic President, Grievance Chair and CLT chairman are all old hands at ALPA games. Who is playing the ALPA game here?

The real problem is that as they do so they need to make commitments with those who want your seniority. So as they take their parting shots, they are willing to place our long term goals in jeopardy. This is, of course, shockingly naive and profoundly dangerous. They are playing with fire in an undeniably reckless fashion and if they aren’t stopped your seniority is going to be torched.

This is some serious B.S.! Why on earth would a majority of the BPR and founders to boot want to deviate from a founding principle of the union? It makes no sense whatsoever. The current PHL reps and the current DCA reps support Date of Hire as per the USAPA constitution. The Phoenix Reps do not.

By Biggie's logic anyone who would agree with a West rep about anything is against Date of Hire. If your going to lie, Make it Big. Hitler had that figured out so Gadhfi. The bigger the lie the more you will stir the pilot group up with conspiracy theorys.

The founding BPR representatives of this union have problems with the way the current leadership is running things.
Reports of threats of violence, 5 meetings just to move an office and a general lack of transparancy in the grievance and negtiating arena seem to be recurring issues.

A recent communication from grievance said that the we have not heard from abitrator Kasher. I think this is true. What if the reason we have not heard is because there are negotiations going on between the company and the union. The arbitrator would then be told to stand down and of couse we wouldn't have heard anything. Perhaps that is the appropriate question to ask.

 

[oscarjazz]

What peep did you expect to hear. You would have done the same, except you would have rationalized it. alpa and Leo will be voted out by A new union for delta soon.

Sure, they have been going for a year and they have 12% of the pilots. Their primary concern now is to get enough money to feed their lawyer. Guess who that is........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Yes you guessed it. That man has only one talent, separating pilots from their money.

 

[sumadarson]

Oooooh and look at the whopping $20,201 they have collected for the new union! Let's compare what a gem USAPA is:

USAPA has financial transparency: We can figuratively see the truck loads of money being delivered to SSM & P's doorstep.

USAPA financial responsibility: Is it financially responsible to file an appeal to a case that is dismissed with prejudice?

Professional Negotiators...: Our three leaders in the NAC were furloughed from US Air at the merger announcement, and save for the current negotiations, have had no experience or training in formal negotiations. Am I not correct?

True "Bottom-Up" Representation: Well, I guess that part is true. USAPA positions & hierarchy is largely staffed with some of the most junior US Airways pilots (see professional negotiators).

Freedom to take back....: Freedom? Did someone mention Crimi?

Keep clickin' them heels Dorothy, Kansas is just around the corner.......

Freedom airlines was an america west commuter, where were you then?

Is andy 28j jjjj jacobs working for nothing? With the results you have so far he should. You will have the declaratory judgment soon, it will help your reality of the situation.

Enjoy your phx narrowbody out and backs for the rest of your career.