US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

Not that it's right, but the union is charged with representing ALL the pilots at a carrier (in this case, the two carriers - CO and COX. As has been posted, USAPA has scabs that are MIGS. As is said, people who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing rocks...

Jim

If the presence of "scabs" can be verified, they should be removed from MIGS status. Period, end of story. That goes for East and West, or for that matter North and South!

seajay

 

[BoeingBoy]

Attrition, hard to say how that will end up being doled out. In a handful of years the West will get it all in any event.

seajay

Only if you count 15-20 years as a handful. In 2025 there could be more pre-merger East pilots still on the seniority list than pre-merger West pilots. Exactly how many on each side will depend on early retirements, medical disability, and deaths.

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

If the presence of "scabs" can be verified, they should be removed from MIGS status. Period, end of story. That goes for East and West, or for that matter North and South!

seajay

AMEN!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Not that it's right, but the union is charged with representing ALL the pilots at a carrier (in this case, the two carriers - CO and COX. As has been posted, USAPA has scabs that are MIGS. As is said, people who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing rocks...

Jim

SCABBED who? As ANSETT!? And do you have proof!

 

[Zone5]

Only if you count 15-20 years as a handful. In 2025 there could be more pre-merger East pilots still on the seniority list than pre-merger West pilots. Exactly how many on each side will depend on early retirements, medical disability, and deaths.

Jim

I assume you are talking about new hire "East" pilots, so what. They are all junior to all West pilots.

seajay

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

When, besides the 737 engineer, the PSA strike, did USAPA or ALPA represent as a member in good standing a pilot who scabbed this very airline! MM!

 

[BoeingBoy]

So you're saying a pilot isn't a scab unless they cross a picket line at their own airline? That's a pretty selective definition of scab.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I assume you are talking about new hire "East" pilots, so what. They are all junior to all West pilots.

seajay

Nope, not counting post-merger hires. As you say, they'd be junior to all the pilots that were on either list at the time of the merger. You can't believe some of the wild numbers thrown around - you have to go to a source that shows DOB, which the company issued seniority list does not show.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

I assume you are talking about new hire "East" pilots, so what. They are all junior to all West pilots.

seajay

The way things are going, they are never going to even factor in what a west pilot is, or means.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

So you're saying a pilot isn't a scab unless they cross a picket line at their own airline? That's a pretty selective definition of scab.

Jim

You said USAPA had scabs as MIGS, well prove it, read my post, on this property USAPA did not accept anyone that crossed a strike here like ALPA did! If you want to put up the definition from WEBSTER so be it!

 

[767one]

Time to move on indeed! Past time.

The "splinters" have always been there. Back in the day, as long as the "senior" pilots got what they wanted, the bottom 1/3 had to "make do" with the scraps. But that was OK, because "someday, you will be senior too". Didn't quite work out that way.

I remember my new hire class being taken out for dinner by some junior ALPA smuck (just some volunteer, as I recall, a fella named Chris Beebe) to a steak house called the Ground Round on, believe it or not, Beer School Road in Pittsburgh. Chris sat at the head of the table and proceeded to apologize for the recently signed ALPA contract which established the "B" scale we would all be subjected to for the next five years. There were several years to come where senior flight attendants were making more money than I was, new hire 190 pilots are in that position today! But I digress, the story ALPA told at the time was that the "B" scale didn't really matter, because we were ALL going to "check out" as Captains long before we got off the "new" five year plan. One of my classmates, an EAL refugee, burst out laughing and told Chris "you don't know dick!" Truer words have never been spoken!

Along comes a few DOH mergers, hell even the "slotting" of the Shuttle put almost all of those guys ahead of me. But that was OK, because the pie got bigger and "someday, you will be senior too". We all know how that worked out, good ole USAir managements idea of a merger was to buy a company, sell their airplanes and "shrink" to profitability. All the while keeping the acquired pilots with their ALPA provided DOH. But that was OK, because "someday, you will be senior too".

Now along comes the AWA transaction, merger, acquisition, rescue, rescued, whatever and low and behold the ALPA way to do things turns out to be to pull the DOH stick out of my ass, turn it around 180 degrees and shove it back in with NIC written all over it. But thats OK, because "someday, you will be senior too", NOT, even without the NIC stick! Such is life, but if the fine young man just ahead of me on the NIC (who will be here 23 tears after I retire at age 65) thinks that's OK, "Houston we have a problem"!

You know what, I think USAPA could very well be "voted" off the property, particularly if LOA-93 goes to the company. Only one way to find out, just go for it, what's stopping you?

AFO?, why should I be angry?, would you be?, not me. I am way beyond angry, I have long ago reached the level of just being totally STUNNED. It's actually, quite peaceful, I gave up twenty plus years of trying to commute and have moved to base, I bid the highest paying position my "juniority" can hold, I bid short call reserve for the higher pay grantee and last month I got paid a little over $800 an hour for the one trip I flew. AFO? hardly.

Attrition, hard to say how that will end up being doled out. In a handful of years the West will get it all in any event.

seajay

Seajay,

Very good post. The EAL guy who told Beebe "he didn't know dick" was right on. I think I might have flown with that guy. Did we fly together on the silver bullet in DCA?

Regards,

Bob

 

[767one]

Time to move on indeed! Past time.

The "splinters" have always been there. Back in the day, as long as the "senior" pilots got what they wanted, the bottom 1/3 had to "make do" with the scraps. But that was OK, because "someday, you will be senior too". Didn't quite work out that way.

I remember my new hire class being taken out for dinner by some junior ALPA smuck (just some volunteer, as I recall, a fella named Chris Beebe) to a steak house called the Ground Round on, believe it or not, Beer School Road in Pittsburgh. Chris sat at the head of the table and proceeded to apologize for the recently signed ALPA contract which established the "B" scale we would all be subjected to for the next five years. There were several years to come where senior flight attendants were making more money than I was, new hire 190 pilots are in that position today! But I digress, the story ALPA told at the time was that the "B" scale didn't really matter, because we were ALL going to "check out" as Captains long before we got off the "new" five year plan. One of my classmates, an EAL refugee, burst out laughing and told Chris "you don't know dick!" Truer words have never been spoken!

Along comes a few DOH mergers, hell even the "slotting" of the Shuttle put almost all of those guys ahead of me. But that was OK, because the pie got bigger and "someday, you will be senior too". We all know how that worked out, good ole USAir managements idea of a merger was to buy a company, sell their airplanes and "shrink" to profitability. All the while keeping the acquired pilots with their ALPA provided DOH. But that was OK, because "someday, you will be senior too".

Now along comes the AWA transaction, merger, acquisition, rescue, rescued, whatever and low and behold the ALPA way to do things turns out to be to pull the DOH stick out of my ass, turn it around 180 degrees and shove it back in with NIC written all over it. But thats OK, because "someday, you will be senior too", NOT, even without the NIC stick! Such is life, but if the fine young man just ahead of me on the NIC (who will be here 23 tears after I retire at age 65) thinks that's OK, "Houston we have a problem"!

You know what, I think USAPA could very well be "voted" off the property, particularly if LOA-93 goes to the company. Only one way to find out, just go for it, what's stopping you?

AFO?, why should I be angry?, would you be?, not me. I am way beyond angry, I have long ago reached the level of just being totally STUNNED. It's actually, quite peaceful, I gave up twenty plus years of trying to commute and have moved to base, I bid the highest paying position my "juniority" can hold, I bid short call reserve for the higher pay grantee and last month I got paid a little over $800 an hour for the one trip I flew. AFO? hardly.

Attrition, hard to say how that will end up being doled out. In a handful of years the West will get it all in any event.

seajay

Seajay,

Very good post. The EAL guy who told Beebe "he didn't know dick" was right on. I think I might have flown with that guy. Did we fly together on the silver bullet in DCA?

Regards,

Bob

 

[Zone5]

Nope, not counting post-merger hires. As you say, they'd be junior to all the pilots that were on either list at the time of the merger. You can't believe some of the wild numbers thrown around - you have to go to a source that shows DOB, which the company issued seniority list does not show.

Jim

The NIC has everybody's DOB listed.

seajay

 

[Black Swan]

Seajay,

Very good post. The EAL guy who told Beebe "he didn't know dick" was right on. I think I might have flown with that guy. Did we fly together on the silver bullet in DCA?

Regards,

Bob

I remember that silver bullet in DCA. Question is, which one? the one eleven or the nine? I remember flying with a guy who had a hot camaro and we flew a trip. During that same trip, BWI ops was kind enough to call and say that same camaro was up on blocks, and someone made off with the wheels! Remember that one?

 

[Zone5]

Seajay,

Very good post. The EAL guy who told Beebe "he didn't know dick" was right on. I think I might have flown with that guy. Did we fly together on the silver bullet in DCA?

Regards,

Bob

You might have. He is a 75/76 Reserve F/O in CLT. Never flown the "silver bullet", I've always been a "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going" kind of guy.

seajay