US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

That's all I've seen too, but that was within days of the incident. I've seen no statements from the company since he plead guilty.

Jim

 

[Zone5]

Perhaps you haven't been following the discussion on that subject.

The guilt by association game was started by samadarson. (aka: Nos) I have explained this several times. It is a matter of using one's own tactics against him to teach a lesson. And it seemed to work judging by the response it gets. It is no more offensive than his accusations of guilt by association by alleged drug runners and scabs and BB single-handedly stapling other pilots in a merger long since past . The best way to deal with a bully (cyber or otherwise) is to give a taste of his own medicine. I also find it interesting how you and many others jump to his defense and cry foul, but stand silent when he and a few others on the east do exactly the same thing. It wreaks of double standards. I'll say it again, reign in your own offenders before pointing your guns at others.

I disagree with your last statement about USAPA not being able to do anything. ALPA has a Pilot Code of Ethics. If USAPA has similar values, they could certainly eject him from the union, just as they would a scab.

True enough. Tis a silly game, I think we all have more important matters to discuss. Furthermore, tossing this kind of garbage back and forth on a public forum, undermines the credibility of all who participate in such silliness.

The best way to deal with such, is to ignore it. I fail to see where I have "jumped" to anyones defense here. How would one go about "reigning in" such nonsense?

Tell me, what would ones status be if they were deemed to be in violation a USAPA's "Pilot Code of Ethics" and "ejected" from the union? I guess that would be one way to get out of having to pay dues. According to Jim, Joe has been terminated by the company, so the whole issue is OBE now.

Lets move on, shall we?

I'm more interested in what folks think about the concept of bringing back the remaining furloughed pilots buy voluntarily reducing a few hours from their monthly line/block. East and West.

seajay

 

[mikey60]

Mikey,

When Allegheny got the 727's in 1978 we were acually flying them from PIT to AVP to BGM to ORD. There was barely enough time to do the checklist from AVP to BGM.

Regards,

Bob

Yes I remember that, everyone seemed to shake their heads, do you remember PIT to BFD in the DC-9? That was a marginal operation. Actually I think the 727 stopped better than the DC-9 if I remember correctly. Oh and ELM to ITH for that long range cruise.

 

[767jetz]

True enough. Tis a silly game, I think we all have more important matters to discuss. Furthermore, tossing this kind of garbage back and forth on a public forum, undermines the credibility of all who participate in such silliness.

The best way to deal with such, is to ignore it. I fail to see where I have "jumped" to anyones defense here. How would one go about "reigning in" such nonsense?

Tell me, what would ones status be if they were deemed to be in violation a USAPA's "Pilot Code of Ethics" and "ejected" from the union? I guess that would be one way to get out of having to pay dues. According to Jim, Joe has been terminated by the company, so the whole issue is OBE now.

Lets move on, shall we?

I'm more interested in what folks think about the concept of bringing back the remaining furloughed pilots buy voluntarily reducing a few hours from their monthly line/block. East and West.

seajay

OK, so perhaps saying you jumped to his defense was on overstatement. For that I apologize. What can be done is apply a little peer pressure. The next time Nos or someone else posts a "you are part of a group who..." statement, or anything else counterproductive, maybe just haveing you and some other peers on the east mentioning that it is wrong, as you did to my post would make them think twice and also show that there are at least some who care more about substance than rhetoric.

The status of a person ejected from the union for such an offense would be a non-member. They still have to pay dues, or maintenance fees, or whatever you call them, but can not participate in the union or any votes. Just like scabs. They are non members.

Moving on is a great idea, but it requires the person who started and continues it, to take the first step and acknowledge the error in his initial guilt by association attacks. Then it would require said person to prove with his actions that he is over such useless, unproductive, offensive tactics and join the rest of us in real debate of facts and opinions.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The best way to deal with such, is to ignore it. I fail to see where I have "jumped" to anyones defense here. How would one go about "reigning in" such nonsense?

Easy to say when it's not you being slandered and lied about. Turn it around and it's suddenly out of bounds to blame an individual fpr the sins of any member of the group - not much "ignoring it" then...

Perhaps if the other East posters did something but ignore Nos he would get the message. Instead we have a number of East posters accepting his lies and commenting to the effect that his charges explain a lot about why I'm against DOH.

Jim

 

[Zone5]

OK, so perhaps saying you jumped to his defense was on overstatement. For that I apologize. What can be done is apply a little peer pressure. The next time Nos or someone else posts a "you are part of a group who..." statement, or anything else counterproductive, maybe just haveing you and some other peers on the east mentioning that it is wrong, as you did to my post would make them think twice and also show that there are at least some who care more about substance than rhetoric.

The status of a person ejected from the union for such an offense would be a non-member. They still have to pay dues, or maintenance fees, or whatever you call them, but can not participate in the union or any votes. Just like scabs. They are non members.

Moving on is a great idea, but it requires the person who started and continues it, to take the first step and acknowledge the error in his initial guilt by association attacks. Then it would require said person to prove with his actions that he is over such useless, unproductive, offensive tactics and join the rest of us in real debate of facts and opinions.

Fair enough. To all it may concern, posting "guilt by association" attacks is WRONG, to all who do so, please STOP! If you are guilty of doing this in the past, man-up and apologize or you are a weenie.

Non-member status it is. Like death and taxes, nobody can totally avoid union dues. Not if they want to stay employed.

On with the show!

seajay

 

[Zone5]

Easy to say when it's not you being slandered and lied about. Turn it around and it's suddenly out of bounds to blame an individual fpr the sins of any member of the group - not much "ignoring it" then...

Perhaps if the other East posters did something but ignore Nos he would get the message. Instead we have a number of East posters accepting his lies and commenting to the effect that his charges explain a lot about why I'm against DOH.

Jim

Those East and West posters who do so are way off base and out in left field. Ones thoughts and feelings about DOH, are just that and you and everyone else has a right to their opinion, no matter what it is.

To use ones disagreement with another's opinion as an excuse to slander, lie or otherwise denigrate that person is not only wrong but counterproductive to advocating for an opposing view. Debate 101.

seajay

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just asking but doesn't CAL ALPA, have SCABS as voting members? I remember paying that strike assessment only to have SCABS be allowed in ALPA! MM

 

[Zone5]

Just asking but doesn't CAL ALPA, have SCABS as voting members? I remember paying that strike assessment only to have SCABS be allowed in ALPA! MM

If they do, then they should be identified as such by ALPA and denied MIGS status. Some things are unforgivable! Period.

seajay

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

If they do, then they should be identified as such by ALPA and denied MIGS status. Some things are unforgivable! Period.

seajay

My point, but in 86 we paid an assessment for the CAL strike, only to have those SCABS let into ALPA after the strike, maybe BB could way in on this one! MM!

 

[sumadarson]

Easy to say when it's not you being slandered and lied about. Turn it around and it's suddenly out of bounds to blame an individual fpr the sins of any member of the group - not much "ignoring it" then...

Perhaps if the other East posters did something but ignore Nos he would get the message. Instead we have a number of East posters accepting his lies and commenting to the effect that his charges explain a lot about why I'm against DOH.

Jim

You are a retired Usairways former Piedmont pilot, pontificating on this board every day about pilot seniority. You worked for an airline that not only disregarded date of hire, they stapled a group of Empire pilots to the bottom of your list.

You had a post on this forum recently that stated the Empire pilots were treated better than the former america west pilots.

You are a hypocrite. You want me muzzled because I am the mirror you have to peer in to, when I post the facts.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

A third organizational effort by ALPA [date ?] (headed by the then current IACP president captain Pat Burke) was finally successful and the Continental and Continental Express pilots elected to be represented by ALPA, at which time the IACP ceased to exist. Ironically, the strike breaking pilots(which is the most notable moral violation and ethical no-no by a union) were all given good standing in the newly formed ALPA unit; a hypocrisy to say the least.

I know some of my critics say I was 3rd grade but maybe they were in 3rd grade,so ironically SCABS at CAL could be slotted ahead of good dues paying members at the combined carrier , man you gotta luv ALPA! MM!

 

[sumadarson]

IACP NMB

 

[BoeingBoy]

You are a hypocrite. You want me muzzled because I am the mirror you have to peer in to, when I post the facts.

You should have that proof I've been waiting for, then. So let's have it.

In the meantime, you are a member of a group that contained a pedophile, pontificating on this board every day about what members of other pilot groups have done and blaming every member of that group for the transgressions. Apparently looking in mirrors does you no good...

Jim

 

[sumadarson]

You should have that proof I've been waiting for, then. So let's have it.


Jim

Proof of what? Be specific, fourth request.