US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

I wish USAPA had taken the high ground and gone after the ones they had proof on and left the the ones that were just venting on a web board out of it.

All that would have taken was for usapa to call those three or four and say, "Hey you stupid idiot, you do understand that you are using caller ID when you called the 800 number today?"

All hindsight now.

 

[Pi brat]

Yes, but that did not move them up the new list. The new list is just that "new". The merger does not move anybody up their old respective list.

Further, the east claims there was a West windfall, yet virtually all West pilots lost relative seniority from their previous West list, when they were placed onto the Nic, While all east pilots gained relative seniority on the Nic compared to the old east list.

What you appear to be saying is, you West pilots would have never held that position on the old east list, and you are right. But that has nothing to do with the position we hold on the Nic.

Ok, you're right, you didn't move up the old list you got a new place on the new list, better?

The west might have lost a tiny bit relative position when they list came out, but the ones I've looked at have already gained it back and will keep gaining vs a stand alone west list. I think it's a windfall, you don't.

 

[cactusboy53]

That is big of you. I seriously doubt anyone meant you real harm, but as you say, the threat...... I'm not going to threaten Jim with slander either.

I wish USAPA had taken the high ground and gone after the ones they had proof on and left the the ones that were just venting on a web board out of it.

Well, you know what they say....."I wish USAPA had.... in one hand and deficate in the other and you get hands that have been deficated on" (sorry, pun intended).

Seriously, I had a rather heated discussion with the minister of mis-communication (Theuer.....that's 'sewer' with a "th"). He vehemently declared that he has"boxes of rocks & s**t" at USAPA headquarters. I agreed that such items were a crime and should processecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I further encouraged him to RUN to the Attny Gen. with his claim. Minister Theuer said that USAPA was keeping the evidence to hold over the accused heads "just in case".

Cleary, Mowrey, Theuer & the like are THUGS and COWARDS. They should be treated as such. USAPA has taken the LOW ROAD every single time, WITHOUT FAIL. The funny thing is that EVERYONE else sees it for EXACTLY WHAT IT IS (except for USAPA supporters, of course).

USAPA and USAPA supporter will utimately be held accountable for their actions (or inactions). If not in this life, them most assuredly in the next.

 

[Metroyet]

I would say the first step would be for the PHX reps to return to the contract negotiating process and define concerns which need to be addressed by the C&R's.

seajay

Why? So USAPA can get their ass sued again? The PHX reps are a function of the USAPA animal. They have *zero* authority to modify or even discuss to modify the Nic. award. I know many of you flatly refuse to believe this, but when ALPA west was stolen from the AMW pilots, the Nic. award was cast in stone. The single carrier status plan blew up in the Founders' face. The "C&Rs" don't even legally exist. There is nothing to talk about anyway. You sound fairly reasonable, (5 additional years of LOA 93 compliments of your East colleagues may have something to do with that) perhaps you should have been on the merger committee years ago.

 

[mikey60]

Don't provoke me, Spud.

How about getting with your pal, NYC and let me know if he wants to keep that appointment.

Ill keep mine.

Let me know.

I dont want to speak for NYC, but for myself FIRE AWAY.

 

[CactusPilot1]

What's your answer, Spud? I'm not leaving this forum util I get one.

Are you keeping your appointment or not?

Better answer me, I'm not paying your childish games anymore.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I dont want to speak for NYC, but for myself FIRE AWAY.

You said we had an appointment next week, not he. You are sending me mixed messages.

Now you cliaim you are not speaking for NYC? How do I not know you are not one of the same until I dig a little further?

I'm angry and motivated. Answer my question. Are you keeping your appointment?

 

[mikey60]

What's your answer, Spud? I'm not leaving this forum util I get one.

Are you keeping your appointment or not?

Better answer me, I'm not paying your childish games anymore.

Duphis 1, I must have missed something along the way. What was the question again? Do I have a dentist appointment tomorrow. Tell me one more time.

 

[Boeing Driver]

Never see the Nic?? At LCC??? umm..if a merger happened tommorrow, what is the only system seniority list accepted at LCC today??

This is not accurate.

The list is not in effect and never will be. Any attempt to use the ill-conceived and fatally flawed NIC list in any future merger would be aggressively challenged, and tied up, in court for an extremely long time; this would be an extremely effective roadblock against any future merger activity.

Boeing Driver

 

[CactusPilot1]

Duphis 1, I must have missed something along the way. What was the question again? Do I have a dentist appointment tomorrow. Tell me one more time.

OK, I have my answer, you and NYC keep your appointment, I will keep mine.

Don't forget, I was the one threatened, it is documented, I have a copy so don't bother deleting it.

Later

 

[nic4us]

Ok, you're right, you didn't move up the old list you got a new place on the new list, better?

The west might have lost a tiny bit relative position when they list came out, but the ones I've looked at have already gained it back and will keep gaining vs a stand alone west list. I think it's a windfall, you don't.

Tiny bit?

That is dependant on how for down the West list you look, actually my percentage loss was not that great, but as you move up from me the loss gets exponential.

For example, a few years back, on this forum, east posters were picking on Rob Costello's position, where he would be in 10 years and because of his age, how long he would be there, and they were saying it as though Rob was awarded some kind of great windfall. Rob was like number 12 on the west list in 2005. 12 out of 1884. On the Nic Rob is moved to about 550 out of 5000. Now I Know the rest of us junior schmucks often find it hard to sympathize with a guy who is still near the top 10%, but the fact that he was formerly in the top less than 1%, was an instrumental part in the building of AWA, was once an AWA 747 captain, is a check airman, and all around one of the nicest people you could ever meet, means absolutley nothing to the arrogance of some east posters. The assumption is, heck, Rob would have never been that senior if he was hired at AAA in 1984. But, the fact of the matter is he wasn't hired at AAA, and he was not added to the east list, and for years he was already waaayyyy more senior than he is now.

The point is, Rob recieved no windfall, nor did any West pilot. You are of course free to disagree.

Did I just write this long Costello biography so that you could use this exchange as an example to BB of admiting when you are wrong? After all, you did start off your post with,"OK, your right".

 

[mikey60]

OK, I have my answer, you and NYC keep your appointment, I will keep mine.

Don't forget, I was the one threatened, it is documented, I have a copy so don't bother deleting it.

Later

O.K. thats it, NYC I'm leaving for Paraguay (no extradition treaty with nic or the lucky 18) will contact you where to send legal corrispondence. Also NYC let me know when it is clear of Duphis 1 and gang.

 

[traderjake]

The list is not in effect and never will be. Any attempt to use the ill-conceived and fatally flawed NIC list in any future merger would be aggressively challenged, and tied up, in court for an extremely long time; this would be an extremely effective roadblock against any future merger activity.

Boeing Driver

Don't worry, no one wants to merge with a group of old, bitter pilots who can't be trusted to keep agreements they make.

The NIC is not in effect yet but it the seniorty list unless it is replaced with another in a new contract.

The courts probability won't let you change it.

 

[cleardirect]

aqua,

The full pay restoration is less than 150 million for the full 41%. You have put your followers in a poor position. Your desert judge took you as far as he could. Remember what Kasher said.........if you owe them the money.....you will pay them the money!

Hate

Hate,

This has been quoted many times. How about you prove your point and post that comment in context?

When and where did Kasher say that? Otherwise it is just more BS from a group of people that have trouble understanding reality.

 

[Pi brat]

Tiny bit?

That is dependant on how for down the West list you look, actually my percentage loss was not that great, but as you move up from me the loss gets exponential.

For example, a few years back, on this forum, east posters were picking on Rob Costello's position, where he would be in 10 years and because of his age, how long he would be there, and they were saying it as though Rob was awarded some kind of great windfall. Rob was like number 12 on the west list in 2005. 12 out of 1884. On the Nic Rob is moved to about 550 out of 5000. Now I Know the rest of us junior schmucks often find it hard to sympathize with a guy who is still near the top 10%, but the fact that he was formerly in the top less than 1%, was an instrumental part in the building of AWA, was once an AWA 747 captain, is a check airman, and all around one of the nicest people you could ever meet, means absolutley nothing to the arrogance of some east posters. The assumption is, heck, Rob would have never been that senior if he was hired at AAA in 1984. But, the fact of the matter is he wasn't hired at AAA, and he was not added to the east list, and for years he was already waaayyyy more senior than he is now.

The point is, Rob recieved no windfall, nor did any West pilot. You are of course free to disagree.

Did I just write this long Costello biography so that you could use this exchange as an example to BB of admiting when you are wrong? After all, you did start off your post with,"OK, your right".

Go back the Nic vs AWA stand alone and tell me if you are at a higher relative position on the nic or stand alone-today, not the day the Nic was published. You might be, I don't know who you are, but the west pilots I've seen are already at a higher relative position on the Nic than they would have been and a stand alone AWA list and the gap gets bigger as the years go on.

Sounds like Rob was screwed by Nic. I've always said I thought the senior west guys were because there was no fences to protect them from the east 517. Sounds like DOH with C&Rs that protect his position in PHX is a better deal. Problem solved! I'm all for ya Rob B)