US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

After the last seniority discussion I should know better. This will be my only post on this, I promise. The west guy I'm looking at is 5.6% points higher on the Nic today than the west stand alone list. The gap increases every year and at 65 he would be 9% points higher. That's not small number now and pretty huge at the top of the list. His east counterpart drops the %s the west guy gains. The crossover point for the east guy I was looking at was in the first year or two. We will all be moving up rapidly after next year no matter what list is used.

I hope Rob hangs on to what he has. If the Nic were implemented tomorrow a lot of senior west line pilots might not.

When it is put into percentages it is kind of skewd.

Here is what I can tell you. Assuming I make it to 65, and assuming the lists stay the same sizes, on the AWA stand alone list I would have retired at 00.6% relative seniority, on the Nic it is 00.2% relative seniority, I would retire 4 tenths of one percent higher with the Nic. Under usapa's DOH plan, I won't make it back to under 25%.

My point tonight was, the West was not added to the east list. Every arguement I hear on this board from east posters regarding % compares the Nic to what a West pilot would have using DOH or basically the east's former list.

 

[flypg]

nic4us

I wouldnt mind being no. 600or700 and be 40 again.

Mikey...no way an'86 hire is 718 on the east, maybe 1718 ?

 

[flypg]

No windfall there, noooooooooo. I'm glad he is back and I hope all of our furloughed pilots are back soon, but I'm having a little trouble with his logic. He has no east pilots below him right now, and with the price of oil, he might be furloughed again before they are. Maybe he should put the backer cash in a bank. Just a thought.

Hey, weren't you the guy that came to the conclusion that the east is overstaffed on captains? For tomorrow we have 1 res C/O in PHl and 4 in CLT. Wow! They are really piling up!

You are so right...IF and WHEN is a NIC he MAY have a 1000 guys below him...6 years and counting, 1.8 mil in the hole. Keep up the donations...Glad this Westicle is back.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You are so right...IF and WHEN is a NIC he MAY have a 1000 guys below him...6 years and counting, 1.8 mil in the hole. Keep up the donations...Glad this Westicle is back

It's great to get all guys and gals back.

Parker is the enemy.

 

[nic4us]

nic4us

I wouldnt mind being no. 600or700 and be 40 again.

To be 40 again I would trade seniority numbers with whats your most junior guys name, Varrini? Then I would leave and not waste it on this company. I get to keep my money in this fantasy, right?

 

[flypg]

Over a third of East retirements are out of the right seat. Every West retirement is out of the left seat. Separate ops nets us just about the same number of captain positions as under the Nic's 2:1 integration ratio.
To get my level of insurance coverage, you're paying $3k a year more than I do. How many weather cancellations have you had? How many stand-up overnights, or four day 17 hour trips have you done lately? I'm generally flying 90+ hours a month and I'm gone from home maybe nine nights a month. This months is even less as I've got three long layovers at home. Every trip commutable (thanks PBS!).
Another lemming . . .

Ran into a returning furlough last night. He's still in training but he's already wearing a silver ($1000) badge. Awesome. He had an interesting insight as to why he and others are coming back. Normally when a pilot is furloughed, they're on the bottom of the list anyway so they might as well start over somewhere else. But this is a very different situation. Now we've got fleet and block hour mins, a pretty darn good quality of life, and the kicker is the Nicolau. Although he's technically on the bottom of the West list, (these are his words) he's coming back with over a thousand East pilots below him and it would be impossible for him to get that kind of seniority anywhere else starting over.

I couldn't agree more.

Enjoy LOA93!

Thanks ! but I enjoy DOH...BTW, are you not really close to furlough yourself ?...watch out, oil going up, leisure market down but keep up the donations...

 

[flypg]

It's great to get all guys and gals back.

Parker is the enemy.

You are perfectly correct...One on the street is too many. And even better, Parker is the enemy.

 

[cleardirect]

No R. Burdic is about no.718 on the east list. Hire date 6/1/86 . Costello is about no. 4 on the list I saw. Hire date 6/15/86 On the nic he is I think you said 550. So if you use DOH he is about 721 and nic about 550, approx 160 numbers.

We have a sim building full of nice guys too. I always found that being ready for a check trumps a house full of nice guys anyday.

Yes the 160 or so people that he is trying to pass on the list will be very upset, I dont blame them. I've been the bottom blockholder and the man below me was a reserve, I dont know your reserve but ours SUCKS. Remember the guy above you on the list is a prick, the guy below you is a dick.

Try and get your facts right. Numbers are at least easy.

R Costello DOH 6/13/83 he was number 5 on the list. Gee I wonder why he was picked?
On the Nicolau list he is number 531 on the AAA proposed list he would have been 910. That would be a difference of 379 not your reported 160. A loss of 905 number instead of a loss of 525. Either way a big loss. while the east guys 1000 numbers down your list loses 188 spots on the nicolau. Tell us who takes the bigger hit?

The guys on the west list 1000 down ends up at 4517 on a LOS list. A loss of 3517 positions and 2694 on the Nicolau list a loss of 1694 positions. Compare the east 1000 and the west 1000.

East losses 188 west loses 1694 under Nicolau. East losses 0 west loses 4517 under DOH. Explain the west windfall.

Also get your terms correct. He is not trying to pass anyone. The arbitrator decide that is his correct position. The west pilots are only determined to collect what we bargained for. Nothing more. Unlike the east that wants to impose your idea of fairness.

 

[cleardirect]

Thanks ! but I enjoy DOH...BTW, are you not really close to furlough yourself ?...watch out, oil going up, leisure market down but keep up the donations...

You have hear of the min block hours right? Furloughs? The west is at min now.

But keep wishing evil on us. Karma is a ####.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Try and get your facts right. Numbers are at least easy.

R Costello DOH 6/13/83 he was number 5 on the list. Gee I wonder why he was picked?
On the Nicolau list he is number 531 on the AAA proposed list he would have been 910. That would be a difference of 379 not your reported 160. A loss of 905 number instead of a loss of 525. Either way a big loss. while the east guys 1000 numbers down your list loses 188 spots on the nicolau. Tell us who takes the bigger hit?

The guys on the west list 1000 down ends up at 4517 on a LOS list. A loss of 3517 positions and 2694 on the Nicolau list a loss of 1694 positions. Compare the east 1000 and the west 1000.

East losses 188 west loses 1694 under Nicolau. East losses 0 west loses 4517 under DOH. Explain the west windfall.

Also get your terms correct. He is not trying to pass anyone. The arbitrator decide that is his correct position. The west pilots are only determined to collect what we bargained for. Nothing more. Unlike the east that wants to impose your idea of fairness.

Get your facts straight, Colello takes the biggest hit! Yup 1800 guys piled on top of him hired years after, R COSTELLO good for him he won't have to suffer the burden of those guys ahead of him, see no NIC is a good thing for the WEST also! MM!

 

[Code Name V]

OK, I will take the first step.

As you know, I was threatened on this forum with bodily harm. Despite the mocking comments made by others, I take this as a valid threat. I know the law is on my side and it is just a matter of filing the proper paperwork to find out who is making threats behind a screen name. Note: it is irrelevant if the accused claims he/she did not have the intent to produce any injury on the victim; the mere act of sending the e-mail with threatening messages typifies the criminal conduct.

The law is on my side and I know it, if I elected to pursue this further. I'll be the bigger man, take the punch and walk away this time.

Unlike Seham who continues to hold the threat of RICO over our pilot group.

Wow, gone a few days and missed all the excitement! Tell me about it..Did he hit you with a sucker punch or did you just forget to duck?

Listen Cacti, you are nothing but an electron floating around in cyberspace; just like your goofy cohorts and your concepts of reality. I haven't even gone back to find the highlights of the prize fight but unless the two of you personally know each other then you are just two unknown cybergeekes shooting electrons back and forth. I wonder how you can have the real threat of bodily harm from a computer? And from what I understand, unless there is a breech of national security you are gonna have one hellovatime trying to find out which electron got rammed up your butt. So, pull up your panties and think about it....

This is too funny. We really need to sell tickets to this sideshow....


V

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

V , they have, just look at all this advertising,MM!

 

[CactusPilot1]

Wow, gone a few days and missed all the excitement! Tell me about it..Did he hit you with a sucker punch or did you just forget to duck?

Listen Cacti, you are nothing but an electron floating around in cyberspace; just like your goofy cohorts and your concepts of reality. V

No V, you need to listen.

Would you consider this a threat?

I have a few buddies down at the dock I would like you to meet some dark night. Tell them that their

International Longshoremen's Association is merely an association and not a union, why dontcha?

And when they're done with their "discussion," we can have another group who merely have a "brotherhood," and not a union, cart what's left of you off in one of their semi- rigs.

Federal law may see this as a threat...

18 U.S.C. § 875(c) states: "Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person of another, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both." From the wording of § 875(c) it is clear that the legislator did not require the element of 'intent.' Thus, it is irrelevant if the accused claims he/she did not have the intent to produce any injury on the victim; the mere act of sending the e-mail with threatening messages typifies the criminal conduct.

By filing a report with the Feds, I have established a file which I can update if threats of violence continue. I'm also visiting with HR on the issue at US Airways.

How it is handled is up to the company and the FBI.

 

[CactusPilot1]

But keep wishing evil on us. Karma is a ####.

So true.....

 

[Hate2fly]

In a few days this letter to the US Airways east pilots from the President of ALPA will be 3 years old. Time flies when you are having fun!

Our boy the desert judge wouldn't let this document in his court room.

Hate

From: ALPA Communications for AAA MEC [[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 5:06 PM
To: alpacommunications-aaamec
Subject: Further Clarification of Separate Operations


March 14, 2008

Dear US Airways Pilot:

I want to respond quickly and in a definitive way to the positive
reactions and questions from many of you to my letter on separate
operations and separate ratification votes.

There should be no confusion on these important points, so I will be as
clear and precise as I can be.

The Transition Agreement requires that the parties maintain separate operations until the implementation of a new collective bargaining
agreement covering the entire airline. Both the Transition Agreement
and ALPA Merger Policy prohibit US Airways from utilizing the
single seniority list until we reach a single agreement.

Merger Policy does not contain a timetable for completing the single
agreement. Rather, Merger Policy calls on the two MECs to work
toward that ultimate goal. While they are doing that, it is not the
responsibility or prerogative of the Association to direct them to reach
agreement on specific contract issues or impose specific contract
solutions.

Some members have asked what will happen if pilots from one group
or the other sue the Association either to block implementation or to
force implementation of the Nicolau award. I repeat—there is no
required timetable for implementation of the award. That only
happens with a single collective bargaining agreement.

So, as required by Merger Policy, the Association will defend the
award but will also work tirelessly to help the two MECs forge
solutions and craft comprehensive proposals that resolve all seniority,
career advancement, and contract issues for all US Airways pilots.
That course of action is consistent with the resolutions of our
Executive Council. As long as the two MECs are working in this
direction, there is a solid defense against court intervention.

When the representation election is behind us, the two MECs can turn
their attention to resolving their differences and reaching an
agreement on contract and career progression issues that will benefit
all US Airways pilots. This will lead to a contract that is much better
than any contract that USAPA can obtain, as it will be a contract that
addresses all pilot concerns. On the other hand, USAPA will propose a
quick, cheap, cost‐neutral contract that addresses only seniority, that
will be tied up in endless litigation, and that is subject to being undone
in future negotiations or in future mergers.

When a tentative agreement is reached under the ALPA structure, each
MEC, followed by each pilot group, will have the right to a separate
ratification vote on that agreement. I want to assure you that
trusteeship will not be used to deprive you of your right to separate
membership ratification. That protection—for each MEC and each
pilot group to analyze, debate, and ratify a contract that meets its
needs—exists in ALPA Merger Policy and does not under USAPA
representation.

In Unity,

Captain John H. Prater
President
ALPA: The Pilots Union
3/14/2008

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