US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Total misjudgement. Wye River was the judgement day. They were warned by Freund. They will NEVER see the Nic on this property. Guaranteed.

Never see the Nic?? At LCC??? umm..if a merger happened tommorrow, what is the only system seniority list accepted at LCC today??

 

[nic4us]

Since airlines are deregulated in domestic operations, then there really is not "east" route. AWA could have flown any route that USA flew, and vice versa, absent the merger.

So, technically, you are correct.

However, there are plenty of former AWA pilots flying routes that were traditionally flown by former USA pilots (and vice versa.) I don't think that previous to the "blissful" marriage, AWA pilots ever flew CLT-TPA, or CLT-MCO. They do now. So in that sense, you are absolutely wrong.

I know the West is flying all kinds of routes that you think are yours. That is exactly my point.

I was not added to your list. I hold a position in the combined list.

The West does not fly east routes, the West operates LCC routes.

What the east and usapa are trying to do is continually make claims to assets that are not yours. So what, you flew from CLT-TPA for AAA, and now a West pilot does for LCC, so that you can fly the added 330s to Madrid or Tel Aviv or wherever.

It does not matter that AWA did not fly CLT-TPA pre-merger. The West is now LCC and they are all our routes.

 

[Zone5]

CJ,

I can tell at least you think prior to posting unlike the Usapians.

C&R's got Seham laughed out of court. We Don't Trust Him or the UHL's who think they are running the show.

You have my attention and I am listening. Just wondering if anybody else on this forum is.

The floor is yours.

I would say the first step would be for the PHX reps to return to the contract negotiating process and define concerns which need to be addressed by the C&R's.

seajay

 

[CactusPilot1]

Total misjudgement. Wye River was the judgement day. They were warned by Freund. They will NEVER see the Nic on this property. Guaranteed.

I don't know how I missed this beauty.

We plan on rolling up the Nic and shoving it down your throat, 9er.

The Nic could have gone either way and I don't really care if you don't like the result.

Cry me a river.. <_<

 

[nic4us]

Absent a merger windfall, how do you move up a seniority list except for attrition? The seniority fairy?

For about the 200th time.

The West was not added to your list.

Your above comment about a "merger windfall" speaks volumes.

Since I know how much you dislike people putting words in your mouth, would you care to explain exactly how a "merger windfall" would move someone "up a seniority list".

 

[Pi brat]

Assuming the company DJ eventually gets clarified and if USAPA is able to move forward with a new JCBA inclusive of a DOH section-22 and if it gets ratified, I would fully expect the C&R's to have been "modified" in such a manner as to insulate the contract, as much as possible, against the possibility of losing the inevitable DFR-II.

Addressing the "furlough fears" of the West pilots in some effective manner should defiantly be a part of those "modifications". My suggestion to use the NIC "pecking order" is merely a suggestion, there are no doubt other methods of achieving the same goal.

To think that a DOH JCBA would not be challenged by a DFR-II, would be foolhardy to say the least and if USAPA doesn't provide C&R's acceptable to a majority of the West pilots, they would be effectively increasing the likelihood that a DFR-II could succeed. To not do everything possible to "inoculate" a DOH JCBA in such a manner as to address the concerns of the West pilots, would really be shortsighted!

seajay

Good post. I don't think the current C&Rs have been modified since a jury found USAPA guilty of DFR. Will they help or hurt the defense in the inevitable DFR-II? Many of those that are more confident about USAPA's chances think that a new trial will let in much more information that will change the outcome. I don't know, and I don't know if will make a difference because C&Rs cannot make DOH near the win the Nic is. I get different opinions about whether USAPA's duty is Nic vs DOH, or DOH vs fair. I don't see how discussion can hurt USAPA, but I don't expect the west to be a part of it. I'd imagine that 9 out of 10 westies wouldn't even talk about them.

 

[Pi brat]

For about the 200th time.

The West was not added to your list.

Your above comment about a "merger windfall" speaks volumes.

Since I know how much you dislike people putting words in your mouth, would you care to explain exactly how a "merger windfall" would move someone "up a seniority list".

Simple, it can put them in a higher relative position on the new list than they held on the old one. It happens all the time. See the example I gave of Jim and 924PS on the Kagel. Nic II did it for some on this one, but now with the delay the tiny east relative bump has already slid to a drop.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I would say the first step would be for the PHX reps to return to the contract negotiating process and define concerns which need to be addressed by the C&R's.

seajay

OK, I will take the first step.

As you know, I was threatened on this forum with bodily harm. Despite the mocking comments made by others, I take this as a valid threat. I know the law is on my side and it is just a matter of filing the proper paperwork to find out who is making threats behind a screen name. Note: it is irrelevant if the accused claims he/she did not have the intent to produce any injury on the victim; the mere act of sending the e-mail with threatening messages typifies the criminal conduct.

The law is on my side and I know it, if I elected to pursue this further. I'll be the bigger man, take the punch and walk away this time.

Unlike Seham who continues to hold the threat of RICO over our pilot group.

 

[Pi brat]

Your above comment about a "merger windfall" speaks volumes.

Great! I'm glad my writing could speak to someone, as it certainly didn't speak to the one it as aimed at! :blink:

 

[nic4us]

I would say the first step would be for the PHX reps to return to the contract negotiating process and define concerns which need to be addressed by the C&R's.

seajay

Not trying to pick a fight here, but your idea is moot.

The only seniority list that will ever be used in a joint contract is the Nic, so it would actually make more sense for usapa to start representing all LCC pilots, adopt the Nic in section 22, and address east and West concerns in other sections of the contract.

 

[Pi brat]

I'll be the bigger man, take the punch and walk away this time.

Unlike Seham who continues to hold the threat of RICO over our pilot group.

That is big of you. I seriously doubt anyone meant you real harm, but as you say, the threat...... I'm not going to threaten Jim with slander either.

I wish USAPA had taken the high ground and gone after the ones they had proof on and left the the ones that were just venting on a web board out of it.

 

[mikey60]

I don't know how I missed this beauty.

We plan on rolling up the Nic and shoving it down your throat, 9er.

The Nic could have gone either way and I don't really care if you don't like the result.

Cry me a river.. <_<

18.U.S.C.& 875 or something like that, remember that DUPHIS1 rolling up the nic and shoving it down someones throat I think would kill our luvthe9. I guess we wont be keeping that appointment with the lawyer next week. OH DUPHIS WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH YOU. Another winning lottery ticket that we dont get to cash in. DARN.

 

[nic4us]

Simple, it can put them in a higher relative position on the new list than they held on the old one. It happens all the time. See the example I gave of Jim and 924PS on the Kagel. Nic II did it for some on this one, but now with the delay the tiny east relative bump has already slid to a drop.

Yes, but that did not move them up the new list. The new list is just that "new". The merger does not move anybody up their old respective list.

Further, the east claims there was a West windfall, yet virtually all West pilots lost relative seniority from their previous West list, when they were placed onto the Nic, While all east pilots gained relative seniority on the Nic compared to the old east list.

What you appear to be saying is, you West pilots would have never held that position on the old east list, and you are right. But that has nothing to do with the position we hold on the Nic.

 

[mikey60]

Not trying to pick a fight here, but your idea is moot.

The only seniority list that will ever be used in a joint contract is the Nic, so it would actually make more sense for usapa to start representing all LCC pilots, adopt the Nic in section 22, and address east and West concerns in other sections of the contract.

Not trying to pick a fight here, but your idea is moot.

The only seniority list that will ever be used in a joint contract is the DOH, so it would actually make more sense for USAPA to start representing all LCC pilots, adopt the DOH in section 22, and address the East and west concerns in other sections of the contract.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I guess we wont be keeping that appointment with the lawyer next week.

Don't provoke me, Spud.

How about getting with your pal, NYC and let me know if he wants to keep that appointment.

Ill keep mine.

Let me know.