US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CactusPilot1]

In general terms perhaps, but where would everybody be today, in real time, taking in to consideration C&R's, to protect the West in their current positions.
seajay

CJ,

We heard Seham explaining to Judge Silver how he was going to protect WEST pilots with C&R's. We busted out laughing, he wheeled around and gave us a look of the same contempt we have for him. It was an act and Judge Silver ignored his obvious attempt to silence us.

It was a good sign that she is not buying his BS either.

 

[Barrister]

Nope. No need to defend me. But then again there is no need to defend nos either. Didn't you come to his defense by saying I crossed a line? Many others came out of the wood work to do so. And remember I did not call him a pedophile. Only that he is "part of a group."

Is there a need to admonish me for a true statement but not Nos? You seemed to jump on the bandwagon condemning me for "crossing a line" but never condemn Nos for doing the same. That's my problem... when the rules are selectively enforced in favor of the east. I have defended the east when they are attacked by their own for disagreeing. Recently one of your own claimed to be re-evaluating his position about USAPA. He was immediately attacked by Nos and others, and has posted little since then, apparently succumbing to peer pressure. Perhaps he received personal attacks via PM, as I have gotten in the past. I defended him. I have also corrected west supporters when they when I disagree. I recently spoke up against a west pilot's use of political slanders in this discussion.

The difference between Jim and Nos is that Nos was never provoked by anyone. He has always been offensive since day one. As Jim has said it has been YEARS. If Jim had gone off the deep end for no reason I would speak up too. But the way I see it, he is tired of the double standards, and after years of being provoked he is dishing some back for a change.

This is exactly what I did with regard to Nos. I don't nor have I ever believed that a person should be judged solely by their association to the lowest common denominator. But after enough of his provocation I decided to turn the guns on him and see how he liked it. Apparently he did not. Same thing happened with oldie. Notice he has backed off and hasn't been seen a a while since some of us targeted him as he was doing to others. The best way to deal with a bully is to target him with his favorite venom.

I'm perfectly fine with sticking to opinions and facts related to the issues at hand. It is many others who seem to not be able to play by those rules. But I would be fine with a cease fire as long as it is applied both ways. But when others start with the lynch mob mentality, no one should be surprised when we respond in kind.

Hey Jetz......lot of electronic ink and time you put in here pal......just tell us
this once WHY DO YOU CARE....WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA......oh yea....
truth and justice......I forgot?????????????????????????????????

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Pi brat]

Do you doubt that Nos would have added that to his list of sins of the the West pilots if it were a West pilot instead of an East pilot that was caught taking those pics? I don't doubt that he'd use it repeatedly. Nos routinely throws crap at the whole West group based on the actions of some - why no problem with that? He threw accusations at me based on what the PI pilot group supposedly did to the Empire pilots (and I'm not convinced that it was the pilots but rather the company that did that) - why no problem with that? You want the East pilots, and especially yourself, treated with kid gloves. You've dug the double standard hole too deep to get out of now.

Jim

Over and over and over. I agree, I imagine he would have used it. Maybe that would have stood out enough to me to call him on it, if I caught it, remember that I said I skipped a lot of his posts?

I wasn't a member of the PI pilots when they merged with Empire, so I wasn't part of the group, thus it wasn't aimed at me, and I really don't know enough about it. I've said, many times, that the idea that you personally did it was out there.

 

[mikey60]

Thank you moderators for cleaning up some of the potty mouth around here.



So much for your theory.

Theory no. 1 down the drain. Standing by for theory no.2.

 

[767jetz]

I couldn't care less how you respond to Nos, but when you start throwing at the whole group, one that I'm a part of, I have an issue.

Ok, but we keep coming back to the double standard thing.

When Nos attacks someone and says "you are part of a group," he is attacking the whole group, not just the directed individual. And his assertions are patently false to boot, unlike convicted Joe. So wrong is wrong no matter where you stand.

It's hard to insult an individual when the premise of your insult is that by association to a group, you are guilty. Maybe your sensibilities are more fragile than you claim. I never threw a pedophile comment in your direction. I think if taken in the context of Nos' jabs, it is quite clear that my assertion was directly aimed at him. Sorry if you took offense. But what I said to Nos was factually accurate. USAPA protects a person convicted of the said crime. (As they should.) That makes anyone in the union part of the same group. It's an absurd premise to walk away thinking it means anyone else is also a pedophile. Hence the accurate illustration of how absurd his assertions are, even if they were true. (Which they are not.)

So to summarize, I don't think anyone but Joe is a pedophile. I am using an absurd example to teach a lesson to a bully.

Perhaps if you guys on the east would learn to reign in your own troublemakers, you'd have less problems in the future. Many of your past problems have been the result of union leaders (East pilots) run amuck. Nos is just one example of a bad apple spoiling the bunch.

 

[767jetz]

......just tell us this once

Just this once? You crack me up!

 

[flypg]

I plan on having the last laugh

Plan on keeping up the donations...

 

[CactusPilot1]

Plan on keeping up the donations...

We have so much money laying around, Hollywood would be envious of our work.

 

[mikey60]

I know that. You were baited.

I was just pointing out to mikey where he was wrong again, since he asked. He claimed that the mods do nothing and you can bad mouth anyone all day long with no consequences. If I had just used east examples of moderator intervention I would be called out on it. Just trying to keep it fair.

I have never said anything about anyones family member except that I had flown with bb's wife. As for my family, grandmother,wife and I think children have been slandered and I never reported anyone, as for me, please look at my warning line. As far as our debates about another poster, yes I have on several occasions made some sarcastic remarks. But you have to admit they were just to good to pass up. Yes jiz I misinterpreted how far we could push the envelope but like testing aircraft you always try a little more. Maybe I need to back to TPS at Edwards and find that thin red line.

 

[mikey60]

I know that guy, Pi. He's reserved and likes to keep a low profile. Not the type of person to start trouble. His story motivated me to act by donating to the Cactus 18 defense fund.

Cactus gold

Iron sulfide.

 

[767one]

You are asking the question incorrectly, but the answere is, I am well within my rights afforded me by the West contract and the usapa CB&Ls.

Now, would you like to tell me how ALPA reneged on its commitments to east pilots? Absolutely did not happen, post merger anyway. From the West's perspective, ALPA was flat out favoring the east at the West's expense. A little bit of that was understandable because of the relationships built over time, for example between Prater and (I have forgotten the name of the ALPA national sec/treas east pilot), but, ALPA did not do anything to harm the east in the AAA/AWA merger. So, your rationalization that a double standard exist is completely false.

The name of the alpo sec/treas at that time is Chris Beebe.

Regards,

Bob

 

[Pi brat]

Ok, but we keep coming back to the double standard thing.

When Nos attacks someone and says "you are part of a group," he is attacking the whole group, not just the directed individual. And his assertions are patently false to boot, unlike convicted Joe. So wrong is wrong no matter where you stand.

It's hard to insult an individual when the premise of your insult is that by association to a group, you are guilty. Maybe your sensibilities are more fragile than you claim. I never threw a pedophile comment in your direction. I think if taken in the context of Nos' jabs, it is quite clear that my assertion was directly aimed at him. Sorry if you took offense. But what I said to Nos was factually accurate. USAPA protects a person convicted of the said crime. (As they should.) That makes anyone in the union part of the same group. It's an absurd premise to walk away thinking it means anyone else is also a pedophile. Hence the accurate illustration of how absurd his assertions are, even if they were true. (Which they are not.)

So to summarize, I don't think anyone but Joe is a pedophile. I am using an absurd example to teach a lesson to a bully.

Perhaps if you guys on the east would learn to reign in your own troublemakers, you'd have less problems in the future. Many of your past problems have been the result of union leaders (East pilots) run amuck. Nos is just one example of a bad apple spoiling the bunch.

You, Jim and prechill have to be from the same family tree.

 

[Pi brat]

Now, would you like to tell me how ALPA reneged on its commitments to east pilots? Absolutely did not happen, post merger anyway.

Many pilots felt that ALPA reneged on it's commitments in many ways, local and national, our own guys and national ones. Constant changing of merger policy, failed oversight of pension, etc. Whether it's true or not really doesn't matter, they perceived it and used it as an excuse to not pay what they were obligated to, just like some, east and west, are doing today. It's no different, you were obligate to pay then, you are now. Don't like it, quit.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Let me give you the highlight reel:

On the '05 list Monda was #3537-604 non-line=#2933 active line pilot
On the '11 list Monda was #2592-619 non-line=#1973 active line pilot

So his raw movement was up 945 numbers, net 960 active line pilots.

You spelled it out quite simply - 1000 East pilots have left since 2005.

I suggest a moratorium on feeding the West trolls from now on (other than to repost those numbers if needed).

 

[CactusPilot1]

Iron sulfide.

Otherwise known as pyrite or fool's gold.

Been investing in the real thing, Mikey. Getting a nice return. More money to donate. Where's that profit sharing check so I can send the proceeds to Leonidas?!