US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CactusPilot1]

I concur. Some of the rhetoric has gotten completely out of control here.

seajay

Agreed......

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

The "little game" you are playing shows your true character.

Typical PI response - says nothing about the attacks I've endured for 3+ years, attacks for no reason other than not toeing the Eastie/USAPA line then blame me because of a whopping two issues you were attacked for and I didn't leap to your defense. You "figured I could handle it" repeatedly but I'm not allowed to figure the same about you the couple of times you were attacked. There's no doubt about your character - anything an Eastie does is ok with you, but you demand a much higher standard from me. Some character you have there PI - a double standard is bad enough but using such childish logic to support it puts you in a whole new classification of your own - you'd probably not help the old lady being mugged because you "think she could handle it". It's obvious that you really believe that you can do no wrong - is your middle name Jesus (naw, can't be cause even he threw the money changers out of the temple) - while anyone that doesn't bow to you is beneath comtempt?

Don't forget - this little game is Nos' little game. You haven't criticized him and he's been playing it 2-3 years. I use his game and it reveals my character, or at least that's your claim. If you haven't realized the character of the East posters for years you now nothing about character. You criticize me for having a speck of dust in my eye but can't see the character of your friends because of the log in your eye.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I concur. Some of the rhetoric has gotten completely out of control here.

seajay

Since you're a newbie I'll forgive you for not knowing what I've put up with since the Nic came out - the rhetoric hasn't gotten out of control, it's been out of control for a long time. Your fellow Nos has accused the West pilots of being scabs, hauling drugs and flying drunk for years. He's repeatedly accused me of single-handedly stapling the Empire pilots as an ALPA rep and only favoring relative position because I supposedly have a relative on the West - both lies. His favorite mantra is "you are the company you keep" - every individual (me at PI, the West pilots) is guilty of the worst that any member of the group is guilty of.

Jim

 

[CactusPilot1]

Since you're a newbie I'll forgive you for not knowing what I've put up with since the Nic came out - the rhetoric hasn't gotten out of control, it's been out of control for a long time.

Jim

Jim,

I reported bigbusdrvr to Kevin Laufer for his personal attacks on you. Comments like dancing on your grave and where is your wife should be reported and should be considered threats that should be investigated.

If anybody comes after you for reporting, tell them to come after me :angry:

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

I reported bigbusdrvr to Kevin Laufer for his personal attacks on you. Comments like dancing on your grave and where is your wife should be reported and should be considered threats that should be investigated.

If anybody comes after you for reporting, tell them to come after me :angry:

You know, I kinda patted myself on the back for never reporting anyone or putting anyone on the ignore list. Nos reported me a few weeks ago, presumably for continuously asking him for proof of his charges. Someone else reported me in the last few days so I figured I could play that game as well and reported big's posts (except the one on the fuel hedging thread - it'd been removed before I knew it was there). I think like all the vitriol thrown around here such threats are made because of the anonymity a forum like this provides.

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

There were picket lines at EVERY Airport where maintenance was staffed.

A mechanic couldnt not be hired as at another classification at US as they were all ready employed, plus the company was not hiring.

Pilots did, some FAs did and Gate Agents were forced by the company, pilots and fas werent.

And the FAs honored our picket line and had to be ordered back to work by a judge, and the FAs won the case in arbitration, at least they tried and didnt have a back room under the table deal like ALPA did.

Care to try again?

No one performed struck work but you have a grudge.

Like I said, you've had your grudge for 20 years. I'm not trying to take it away from you.

 

[700UW]

Are you serious?

Pliots, crews and others cleaned planes, during the 30 day cooling off period, that is why we had thousands of grievances and during the strike, guess you dont know that we had people on the inside who were married, dating or family of mechanic and related and knew what was going on while we werent there.

Get real.

 

[Zone5]

Since you're a newbie I'll forgive you for not knowing what I've put up with since the Nic came out - the rhetoric hasn't gotten out of control, it's been out of control for a long time. Your fellow Nos has accused the West pilots of being scabs, hauling drugs and flying drunk for years. He's repeatedly accused me of single-handedly stapling the Empire pilots as an ALPA rep and only favoring relative position because I supposedly have a relative on the West - both lies. His favorite mantra is "you are the company you keep" - every individual (me at PI, the West pilots) is guilty of the worst that any member of the group is guilty of.

Jim

Out of control is actually putting it lightly, more like a deep departure from controlled thought. Stick full forward, neutral lateral, full opposite rudder.....and don't forget to lock your harness.....in case you have to eject!

A lot of uncalled for accusations and characterizations have been made here by those of both the East and West persuasion. None of which serves any purpose outside of making ALL of us look bad, now that's what I call guilt by association.

At some point, it's best to call a spade a spade, take the high ground and just walk away. This incessant immovable object slamming into an irresistible force thing going on here, just results in a lot of unproductive noise and heat. Furthermore, this is a public forum, I don't think it serves anyones best interest to denigrate the profession such a manner. That's why there is a PM option.

seajay

 

[CactusPilot1]

You know, I kinda patted myself on the back for never reporting anyone or putting anyone on the ignore list. Nos reported me a few weeks ago, presumably for continuously asking him for proof of his charges. Someone else reported me in the last few days so I figured I could play that game as well and reported big's posts (except the one on the fuel hedging thread - it'd been removed before I knew it was there). I think like all the vitriol thrown around here such threats are made because of the anonymity a forum like this provides.

Jim

I got baited this morning and bit, then spanked. My bad for falling for it. I have no idea how the threats against you were not noticed. I realize the moderators can't read all the posts but was thinking at the very least would be reported.

I've hired two attorneys and document everything since RICO charges were filed against my fellow pilots. I find it very interesting that people who screamed bloody murder about doggy doo being some kind of threat are the very people threatening to dance on your grave. The same people who threatened me in the past few days.

My legal guns are loaded and waiting to be fired if needed.

 

[Pi brat]

So that applies to Nos too, right? Why don't you add his name to your comment? Nos created the "little game" in the first place.

And BTW, no one said you are a child predator. Only that USAPA protects Joe, a convicted child predator east pilot, from being fired and does nothing to remove him from the union. Oh, and that you are part of that group.

When Nos called me a waffler, I answered HIM. Jim has directed posts at ME about acts with children. He can hide behind his "game" but there is a difference.

As an American you are part of a group that has at times supported some very unsavory characters around the world. Is it your fault? Are you hunting down CIA files to find out who is and who is not worthy of our county's support? I have no idea what has happened with "Joe". He will have to deal with the legal consequences of his actions and I left it at that. To claim otherwise is B.S.

Do I need to start defending you too jetz? Are your feelings getting hurt too?

 

[Pi brat]

Typical PI response - says nothing about the attacks I've endured for 3+ years, attacks for no reason other than not toeing the Eastie/USAPA line then blame me because of a whopping two issues you were attacked for and I didn't leap to your defense. You "figured I could handle it" repeatedly but I'm not allowed to figure the same about you the couple of times you were attacked. There's no doubt about your character - anything an Eastie does is ok with you, but you demand a much higher standard from me. Some character you have there PI - a double standard is bad enough but using such childish logic to support it puts you in a whole new classification of your own - you'd probably not help the old lady being mugged because you "think she could handle it". It's obvious that you really believe that you can do no wrong - is your middle name Jesus (naw, can't be cause even he threw the money changers out of the temple) - while anyone that doesn't bow to you is beneath comtempt?

Don't forget - this little game is Nos' little game. You haven't criticized him and he's been playing it 2-3 years. I use his game and it reveals my character, or at least that's your claim. If you haven't realized the character of the East posters for years you now nothing about character. You criticize me for having a speck of dust in my eye but can't see the character of your friends because of the log in your eye.

Jim

Jim,

Wrong again. Remember, the first step is to stop digging.

Post #6327
Pi brat, on 25 January 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:
I will say this for Jim, I do believe that he truly believes that a relative position list is more fair than a DOH and that is his only original motive for his posts. But Jim, you do seem to go out of your way to favor the west pilots, even if it doesn't even relate to that debate.


My frustration with you came from the fact that pre's claims were obviously false, yet you dance around with "apples and oranges". I said, OK, but give me your opinion, is there anyway her claim of only 2200 active pilots in 2005 can be right, and if you answered it, I missed it. You are so wrapped up in being right, you ignore what is right in front of you.

I'll make you a deal. You quit aiming child predator claims at me, and I will never post to you again. You know I do not believe that the individual is as bad and responsible for it's lowest member. I've told you that repeatedly, and you need to stop doing that with me, at least with something as egregious as being a child predator.

 

[Pi brat]

I fail to see the double standard.




Further, ALPA sure screwed up, but they never failed to adhere to their obligations to the east pilots.

There are two of your biggest problems.

Have you, and are you paying what is required of you according to your contract that is administered by your legally elected union?

 

[Phoenix]

Are you serious?

Pliots, crews and others cleaned planes, during the 30 day cooling off period, that is why we had thousands of grievances and during the strike, guess you dont know that we had people on the inside who were married, dating or family of mechanic and related and knew what was going on while we werent there.

Get real.

I once read a story about a guy that believed he was wronged by his dad. As a result, he felt justified to hate his dad as a lifelong passion. His whole life was wrapped up in his hatred, so when his dad finally died and the object of his hatred was no longer available, he just fell apart.

If everyone, that you allege wronged you, came forward and admitted everything you hold against them, would you be satisfied or depressed to no longer have a basis for a grudge?

 

[prechilill]

My frustration with you came from the fact that pre's claims were obviously false, yet you dance around with "apples and oranges". I said, OK, but give me your opinion, is there anyway her claim of only 2200 active pilots in 2005 can be right, and if you answered it, I missed it. You are so wrapped up in being right, you ignore what is right in front of you.

I'll make you a deal. You quit aiming child predator claims at me, and I will never post to you again. You know I do not believe that the individual is as bad and responsible for it's lowest member. I've told you that repeatedly, and you need to stop doing that with me, at least with something as egregious as being a child predator.

You just won't give it up, will you? Go look at the east seniority list on Wings... Count the names and then look at how many you had in 2005.
Did you even go to college? I know you were hired young and had a lot in life laid out for you (thanks Dad!) but really, can you even count? Can you not look at a seniority list and count down from Monda? If you can count to 600 you will get close to the answer.
So now, tell us again you had 600 guys senior to Monda retire in two years to keep the east in a state of "zero growth"

 

[CactusPilot1]

There are two of your biggest problems.

Have you, and are you paying what is required of you according to your contract that is administered by your legally elected union?

You and I disagree but have been civil. I see you trying to reach out at times and reel back in frustration. You and I don't agree on the Nic. I don't even bother debating it because of the ongoing legal battles which include the DJ being decided by Judge Silver.

I'm a MIG of USAPA because I feel I should be able to criticize the direction the association and the leadership if it does not fairly represent my interests. Criticism through normal channels go ignored by the association. Therefore, they find themselves in court and facing opposition on the message boards.

One more thing, it puts a bad taste in some peoples mouths to fund an association which files trumped up, malicious charges against the very membership it claims to represent.

I don't blame Nic for not wanting to fund such an association which is pretending to be a union.