US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

You still don't get the rules Nos set up for this game - you neither get nor deserve any proof. Go back to sorting you pics junior, according to your wife you need the little blue pills a lot more than I.

Jim - the East's pilots nightmare for the next 3+ years.

You got the wrong guy!

I hope you are still around 3+ years, this really is healthy for guys like you.

 

[N924PS]

So the Messiah holds a grude, the PS dude who got DOH in three mergers and now says DOH is a travesty, and we get a changed merger policy that would hand our waiting over to another group. What a world.

The "PS Dude" was in favor of DOH with conditions and restrictions. Until negotation, mediation, and finally binding arbitration was unable to produce that result.

From day one of seeing Lee $eham in action, I never believed changing unions would overturn the result of binding arbitration. I still don't. I'm going to feel very, very sad for you guys when your career meets yet another disappointment.

DOH is not a travesty, but trying to achieve it through a USAPA cram down is. What a world.....

 

[Pi brat]

DOH is not a travesty, but trying to achieve it through a USAPA cram down is. What a world.....

It wasn't my idea, and I've never said I knew it would work..............

You know what PS? If you are the guy I think you are, you were one of the best pilots and most enjoyable captains I ever flew with. I've disagree with you on some issues, but I understood where you were coming from and I haven't changed my opinion of you. I originally thought you just wanted this fight over so you could get to PHX for your last few years, but in hindsight I'm sure the feeling of a "cram down" affected your opinions. Sorry if I was too hard on you.

I was frustrated to see a continuing stream of PS guys coming into CLT on top of me, but I understood that your bases were closed and you were hired before me. Maybe because my relative % didn't change that much, it allowed me to be more open minded about DOH than some of the more senior PI guys. It's been almost 25 years of waiting for me to be a bottom reserve captain. The Nic will allow a whole new stream of guys to come in on top. It's frustrating, and it's hard to hear condemnation from a guy that benefited from DOH.

 

[Pi brat]

Jim is usually right and the few times when he wasn't he had no problems admitting when he was wrong. That's called integrity, I know you do not recognize that trait but that is what you are seeing in Jim.

A Golden Oldie! Ha!

 

[nic4us]

Yep, another a**hole.

Looks like we will be seeing another newbie show up soon.


PS....I figured it out....It is short for flying pig...as in when pigs fly...as in when usapa will get idiots such as this off LOA93, or out of binding arbitration.

 

[N924PS]

It wasn't my idea, and I've never said I knew it would work..............

You know what PS? If you are the guy I think you are, you were one of the best pilots and most enjoyable captains I ever flew with. I've disagree with you on some issues, but I understood where you were coming from and I haven't changed my opinion of you. I originally thought you just wanted this fight over so you could get to PHX for your last few years, but in hindsight I'm sure the feeling of a "cram down" affected your opinions. Sorry if I was too hard on you.

I was frustrated to see a continuing stream of PS guys coming into CLT on top of me, but I understood that your bases were closed and you were hired before me. Maybe because my relative % didn't change that much, it allowed me to be more open minded about DOH than some of the more senior PI guys. It's been almost 25 years of waiting for me to be a bottom reserve captain. The Nic will allow a whole new stream of guys to come in on top. It's frustrating, and it's hard to hear condemnation from a guy that benefited from DOH.

I think everyone is becoming increasingly frustrated on many levels. This forum is a perfect example. Posters that focused strictly on the issues have now become vitriolic and just plain mean spirited.

At the end of the day, we have all been victims of a stream of bad management, the aftermath of 9/11, and poor union leadership. I don't think we're doing much better with USAPA than ALPA thus far. It seems to me that USAPA really wishes only to represent those adversely affected by the Nicolau Award and the rest (including the West) be damned.

 

[nic4us]

How can you praise this post from seajay(your were right, it was a good one) and continue to say the east stole jobs? The ultimate end of this will be when/if a joint contract is ratified, and not before. Separate ops until then, bottom line. For the east that has worked well for those that have moved up the list, not so much for those at the top and stuck on LOA 93, but you only harp on the "theft". That makes your claim of theft one of the biggest lies on here.

Because this is the new and improved AIRLINEFORUMS, and I can pretty much do whatever I want.

When the TA was written, any new aircraft would be shared. We shared any aircraft yet? I hear the east has something like 8 new 330's some ATA 757s, and a fleet of 15 E190s. How many West pilots flying those airplanes? Owe the West any of those seats?

When the TA was written, AWA could not hire until all 1700 of the east furloughs were offered recall. All were recalled, then new hiring began, then another round of furlough. The West took a disproportionate 10% hit, while flying was transfered east, (we won the TA 10 grievence,,,remember) while the east took a small 3% hit while flying airplanes they owe West seats on. Then, the seniority theives at usapa petition the company to allow formerly furloughed east pilots who took recall West, but were now getting furloughed again, to go back east and retain employment, while pilots senior to them were furloughed. Job theft!!!

Rationalize your claim to the jobs however you wish, simple truth to the matter is usapa is actively stealing West positions. No lie, just fact.

 

[mikey60]

100! i never said that. I would believe maybe 10 but if you read my post it pertains to even one and I have seen at least one claim that the east is wrong. Try reading things in the context they are given.

Besides, west pilots and supporters have provided endless facts. You easties just aren't interested in them so why do you ask for them so often? Does it satisfy you to think that you are making us serve you in some way?

PS: you are at the top of the list of most juvenile posters here. Keep yelling "shut up". That will get you real far.....

You said in post # 8999 that" I am sure that there are east pilots who believe that it is wrong to ignore binding arbitration and wrong to attempt to overturn the decision and renig on atreements made with the east." My responce was " show me 100 pilots that feel this way just 100". Now your saying that you have seen at least one clain that the east is wrong..... one out of 2500 pilots.

Show us the endless facts, facts of what?If all your "facts" were true and correct we would already have a list but we dont so all your fact must not be correct.

I have never, never said shut up on this board. Give me the post and I'LL TAKE 2 WEEK OFF, self imposed to the beach.

And as difficult as it has been I didnt bring up your magazine thing, changing my opinion of you.

 

[mikey60]

I know you think the moderators enjoy this kind of stuff, but there is still a "report function." How many times do you think you can call people "duphis", "a**hole", "moron",and "stupid" before you get banned?

Anyone who has not reported this class act should do so.

The report function isnt used anymore, it was used in the previous style of forum now that little line can go around the earth and it doesnt mean poop.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The report function isnt used anymore, it was used in the previous style of forum now that little line can go around the earth and it doesnt mean poop.

You just don't get anything right do you?

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Post #6327-I guess it wasn't enough support to Jim from getting his knickers in a wad



Pi brat, on 25 January 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:
"I will say this for Jim, I do believe that he truly believes that a relative position list is more fair than a DOH and that is his only original motive for his posts. But Jim, you do seem to go out of your way to favor the west pilots, even if it doesn't even relate to that debate."


Boeing Boy

"Actually I favor the Nic (though I'd make two small changes). It just happens that that's what the West favors also. Reverse the positions - the West is the majority and trying to get out of an arbitrator's relative position for equip/seat combined list while the East if fighting to keep that and I be "favoring" the East pilots.

No East poster but you may believe it, but it's only about what I believe is a fair starting point for merging seniority lists. You may recall that I said nearly 3 years ago that seniority isn't when you got on the list or seniority would only increase and never go backward. Seniority is where you are on the list - the top Captain is still the top, no matter whether it took 10 or 25 years to get to the top."

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

It's hard to find support when you're constantly being maligned, lied about, called every name in the book, etc. As you've taken to doing junior. Join your East friends.

Jim

 

[mikey60]

Interesting you mention the Kagel award. The Messiah, aka Jim, got a little hot when I brought it up as a reason he might still be having issues. I think he said I was hurt much more than. In the big picture that was probably true as he stayed a captain and I stayed and F/O! But here are some interesting numbers:

Jim went from about 19% relative position on the PI list to about 32% on the combined list.

I went from around 76% all the way down to.........about 77%

I wondered where Jim's % went, so I looked up who I think 924PS is. He jumped up from about 41% to 29%, or to put it another way, he gained about the same % points that Jim lost! And that is from the US Air list, I would imagine from PSA to final US list that jump was even greater.

So the Messiah holds a grude, the PS dude who got DOH in three mergers and now says DOH is a travesty, and we get a changed merger policy that would hand our waiting over to another group. What a world.

PI
His seniority of 1979 put him behind a large group of AL and PSA that were hired in 1978. This group was big enough to keep him off the 75/76 probably until his retirement date. Im sure with a ego the size of his this was unacceptable, it couldnt happen to him, well it did and he would have to stay on the 737 for the last years of his career. He probably hates the PSA guys even more because they poured into CLT after the merger with PSA, all senior, all way younger and all in his seat.

 

[Pi brat]

Because this is the new and improved AIRLINEFORUMS, and I can pretty much do whatever I want.

When the TA was written, any new aircraft would be shared. We shared any aircraft yet? I hear the east has something like 8 new 330's some ATA 757s, and a fleet of 15 E190s. How many West pilots flying those airplanes? Owe the West any of those seats?

When the TA was written, AWA could not hire until all 1700 of the east furloughs were offered recall. All were recalled, then new hiring began, then another round of furlough. The West took a disproportionate 10% hit, while flying was transfered east, (we won the TA 10 grievence,,,remember) while the east took a small 3% hit while flying airplanes they owe West seats on. Then, the seniority theives at usapa petition the company to allow formerly furloughed east pilots who took recall West, but were now getting furloughed again, to go back east and retain employment, while pilots senior to them were furloughed. Job theft!!!

Rationalize your claim to the jobs however you wish, simple truth to the matter is usapa is actively stealing West positions. No lie, just fact.

You can do whatever you want and still be wrong at all most every turn.

How were the 757s and E190s split up? Wasn't that decided in advance? You would want to renege on an agreement, would you? The A330s, I don't know, but without them and the new 320s we would be below our min fleet. You wouldn't want to violate that part of the TA, would you? Or is it only the west part you are interested in?

You make the assumption that had we stayed with ALPA, things would be different, we would have a contract and the Nic would be in place. That is not a sure thing and pretty doubtful in my opinion. Absent that-no theft and you are just full of it.

 

[Pi brat]

It's hard to find support when you're constantly being maligned, lied about, called every name in the book, etc. As you've taken to doing junior. Now go back to your pics of little girls. Join your slime ball East friends.

Jim

Is that slander or libel? I get them confused.