US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Parker should have told him right then and there..."Well Mike that would be awful presumptious on your part..

Unfortunately Parker was precluded from saying that. USAPA was the NMB recognized "union" that Parker was required to negotiate with. But negotiate with, not give in to...

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

No ALPA National intervention in the pension debacle was the last day they represented me, buh bye ALPA.......

I suggest that you all take the time to read the LOA 93 transcripts for a couple reasons. First so when you don’t get your snap back you will know why second. The entire history (under oath) is there. Just a couple excerpts for your reading pleasure. Anyone want to say that ALPA national just gave your pension away? You guys really need to let go of the past and accept reality as it is today.

And he related to us that upper management wanted to come out and visit with us that day, later that day because they had discovered a problem with the pilot pension plan underfunding.

While they were making out the application for the ATSB loan guarantee, they calculated that the pilot pension plan had a large deficit. And that under the terms of ERISA, that large deficit would have to be repaid within a term of three years, something in the neighborhood of, depending upon whose assumptions you used, 300 to 500 million per year, and that that sum of money would not permit the Company to achieve the ATSB loan guarantee.

You do understand that without the ATSB loans US Airways would have closed the doors right. ATSB was not going lend $1 billion when the company also had a $900-1.5 billion pension to fund. That would have taken all of the operating cash. You would have no pension AND no job.

And that lasted throughout February. And at the end of February, beginning -- I believe it was March 1, the judge issued a bench decision wherein they agreed with us, with ALPA, that we had not agreed to the termination of our plan in the previous concessions, that is the summer Restructuring Agreement, or Letter 84. But he did in fact find that the Company had met the standards of the law, the ERISA law, had met the standards of financial distress. And just that finding was devastating for us. And -- because largely, it meant that the PBGC could have come in and involuntarily terminated our plan whether we liked it or not.

So answer this. The court and PBGC terminated your plan whether you liked it or not. What exactly was ALPA national supposed to do? What did you want ALPA to do that they could have done but did not do?

Kicking screaming, holding your breath or throwing a tantrum on the floor of the court does not work. So besides that. What?

 

[nic4us]

I have a few buddies down at the dock I would like you to meet some dark night. Tell them that their

International Longshoremen's Association is merely an association and not a union, why dontcha?

And when they're done with their "discussion," we can have another group who merely have a "brotherhood," and not a union, cart what's left of you off in one of their semi- rigs.

So you are comparing usapa to the longshoremen or teamsters?

What a laugh!!!!!

Maybe you should go meet those same people on a dark night.

Make sure to point out that they have a lot in common with usapa.

Better yet, use a little bit of your east seniority complex and tell them how much better being a reneging usapa scumbag is to their method of representation.

 

[cleardirect]

Um, well you will never get the ALPA National Accountability concept, I'll just drop it.

If oil goes to $150 a barrel, great. If LCC is not a viable entity, working for free won't save it. We know ALPA would be back at the table giving back, time will tell if the weak pilots will demand USAPA to "be at the table giving back" as ALPA (National ENDORSED) did.


How long has it taken for AWA to get an industry leading contract?

To bad you all did not have that same conviction back in 2001-2002-2003-2004 when you were giving back everything. If you had been the tough guys you say you are now the west would not have had to deal with you guys because you would have been out of business. Big talk no follow through.

(National endorsed) East majority voted. National does not get a vote, you know that right.

How long has it been since Us Airways had the industry LEADING contract? How long did it take US Airways to get an industry leading contract? 40 years? What organization go that for you?

You know there can only be one leader. How long has it taken usapa to get an industry STANDARD contract?

 

[nic4us]

Unfortunately Parker was precluded from saying that. USAPA was the NMB recognized "union" that Parker was required to negotiate with. But negotiate with, not give in to...

Jim

I know, you just gave me a good opening to take a dig at Cleary.

My point was how far off base he was when he made that comment. It showed a complete disconnect with reality. The same complete disconnect that he has telling the east he will get them retro pay parity, an LOA 93 win, etc... He has no idea how far out of his league he is in, and/or the extent to which usapa is in the hole. He is the head cheerleader carrying the shovel. Any east pilot that supports this guy has no room to complain about pay disparity or LOA93. Because of their incompetence, Cleary and usapa are guaranteeing these issues stay in place.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You're right - the inmates are runing the East asylum...too bad that they've convinced themselves that it's nirvana...

Wonder when the Czar will start promising that 27 virgins await the faithful who follow his commands...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm always a NO voter, but in the past we didn't always get to vote.

Yeah, yeah - every single Eastie here claims that...

Well at least we can count on you to buy into the sky is falling mantra from Management ..........

You mean like most of the East pilots since 1992? A proud legacy of give backs - worn like it's some kind of gold medal...

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

Well said Nic. Grab your fav lawn chair and make yourself comfortable, reach into the cooler and grab your fav brew, and just watch.

Bring plenty of sunscreen too.

The arbitration scheduled in October was pushed to March and now June. It's going to have taken 11 years when they get a contract out for the membership to vote on.



Atlas, Polar Air and Teamster pilots deadlocked, arbitration next

Source: Shipping Gazette, September 20,, 2010

 

[767jetz]

East Pilot: "Sun's gonna rise tomorrow morning".......West Pilot: "No it's not, whoever told you that is lying".........how inane this website is.....

West pilot: "Sun's gonna rise tomorrow. Nic will still be there as the only seniority list accepted by the company. The rule of law will prevail."

East pilot: "Hogwash! who ever told you that is lying! Nic is dead! Nic is dead! The ninth said the Nic is dead!"

See how it works both ways?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

What would you have had national do? Put up the $2 billion that your pension was short? Tell you again to freeze your pension? Demand that the BK rules be changed just for you?

Your airline was failing and heading for liquidation. your pension was going and there was NOTHING anyone could have done to stop it. Blame whoever you want but bottom line it was your crappy company that caused it not national.

Why was our pension short under ALPA's watchful eye, a union that was suppose to monitor it, and not let it be stolen under it's watchful eye, oh yes they own liability in the situation and yes in the PEN INV ALPA will have plenty of questions to answer, "NOTHING ANYONE COULD HAVE DONE TO STOP IT!" We disagree so does the pension investigation committee! MM! Word up CLEAR it's your crappy company now!

 

[CactusPilot1]

I have a few buddies down at the dock I would like you to meet some dark night. Tell them that their

International Longshoremen's Association is merely an association and not a union, why dontcha?

And when they're done with their "discussion," we can have another group who merely have a "brotherhood," and not a union, cart what's left of you off in one of their semi- rigs.

Are you threatening me, boy? Not too smart are you? Making threats on a public forum. That may work with the pukes at YOUR union office but it doesn't fly wiith me.

Unless you are prepared to back up your empty threats....Liberal puke. Oh, I have read enough of your posts to figure that out too

Boy...

 

[BoeingBoy]

Why was our pension short under ALPA's watchful eye, a union that was suppose to monitor it, and not let it be stolen under it's watchful eye

I'm sure you meant to say the East MEC - you know, your East pals.

Do some research - there are different accounting standards for an ongoing pension vs a pension being terminated. An ongoing pension can be relatively well funded, but when using termination accounting it can be significantly underfunded. Add in the recession of the late 90's and early 00's when the stock market dropped like the proverbial rock and you have the mess that was the pilot's pension.

A question though - who did you have to...ummm...service to get your name in green when you were posting. Never seen anyone except Mods have a different color...

Jim

 

[767jetz]

HMMMMM, you think if the ALPA Merger Policy wasn't changed to include LOS now that UAL wouldn't be walking away from ALPA?

Another fantasy/conspiracy made up by the self justifying east pilots.

No, UA would not be walking away from ALPA. How do I know? Because long before this merger, the UPA attempt failed miserably to garner more than 2 or 3% support.

Did UA try to walk away from ALPA during the UA acquisition attempt in 2001, even after hearing the US pilots rant about DOH and flying our widebodies? No. We expect reasonable people to negotiate in good faith and honor their commitments.

If UA walked away from ALPA, McCaskil/Bond would apply. No LOS there, and would still end up in front of an arbitrator, subject to the same method most recent mergers have gone... slotting by equipment and position with adjustments for particular circumstances. (Remember those top 517 the east got?)

Your theory does not hold water.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Are You Tired of the USAPA Failures, Excuses and Nonsense Yet?

See Story

 

[traderjake]

Why was our pension short under ALPA's watchful eye, a union that was suppose to monitor it, and not let it be stolen under it's watchful eye, oh yes they own liability in the situation and yes in the PEN INV ALPA will have plenty of questions to answer, "NOTHING ANYONE COULD HAVE DONE TO STOP IT!" We disagree so does the pension investigation committee! MM! Word up CLEAR it's your crappy company now!

We lost our pension because the MEC under John Davis would not let us freeze the plan when the Insurance and Retirement Committee said we should.

John Davis got his million dollar lump.