US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

And exactly why do you care???

FYI, You're starting to sound like a parrot.

"Polly want a cracker?"
"Polly want a cracker?"
"Polly want a cracker?"

 

[767jetz]

You mean the truth like the fourth seniority integration in a row going slotting by equipment and status, not DOH.

You no nothing about the truth.

The truth is hurting them everyday. Unfortunately the masochists are hurting everyone else as well. And the implosion continues.

Interesting how with each non-DOH integration, their house of cards falls some more. Notice how DOH used to be in every post. Now suddenly you hear little of DOH or even LOS and mostly hear about Kasher, separate ops forever, and even new wild fantasies about new hires voting to keep it that way.

But there is deafening silence on the subject of 4 (soon to be 5 or 6) SLI's going by slotting/equipment/status/&furloughs on the bottom. Even McCaskill-Bond (something they used to spout against ALPA) has proven them wrong.

 

[Crzipilot]

You mean the truth like the fourth seniority integration in a row going slotting by equipment and status, not DOH.

You no nothing about the truth.

Here's a little truth about the arbitrators Conclusion on that award... (looks like he certainly didn't use OUR award as a template) In fact he seems to indicate that this was such a unique integration that "Traditional methods of integration fail to produce a fair and equitable list" I wonder what that traditional method of integration is? DOH maybe?

CONCLUSIONS
In terms of financial strength, business models, aircraft flown, experience, length of
service, career progression, collective bargaining status, pay and benefits, and contributions to
the future of the merged enterprise, it would be a challenge to conjure four pre-merger
commercial pilot groups and seniority lists exhibiting fewer common attributes than those
involved in this case. With regard to all of those factors, the four airlines and pilots involved in
this integration proceeding were so disparate and disproportionate at the time of the transactions
that traditional methods of list integration fail to produce a fair and equitable list. All agree that a
stratified totem pole produced by unqualified date-of-hire dovetailing does not suffice. But none
of the respective final proposals and associated conditions and restrictions advanced by the
contending Parties would alone produce a fair and equitable result.

 

[CallawayGolf]

YHGTBSM!! You call them 'leaders'??? The three of them couldn't lead themselves out of a one door exit. Just goes to show the screwed up mentality of the West. Leadership starts by example. These clowns have raped, stolen, and engraciated themselves at all of our expense and you think they are leaders? Nuff said.

V

Just a sampling of the available facts - seems like leadership to me…

Feb 10, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- US Airways ranked first in baggage handling for 2010 among the major network carriers according to the U.S. Department of Transportation's (DOT) December 2010 Air Travel Consumer Report released today.
Feb 04, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- US Airways' (NYSE:LCC) commitment to safety was reaffirmed this week with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) validation of its fully functioning Safety Management System (SMS). It is one of the first U.S. airlines to receive the FAA's validation of its company-wide implementation of this voluntary safety enhancement program.
Jan 26, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- US Airways Reports Fourth Quarter and Full Year Profit (Second Highest Annual Profit in Company's History)
Jan 05, 2011 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC) today announced December, fourth quarter, and full-year 2010 traffic results. Mainline revenue passenger miles (RPMs) for the month were 4.7 billion, up 5.7 percent versus December 2009. Mainline capacity was 5.9 billion available seat miles (ASMs), up 3.7 percent versus December 2009.
Ariz., Aug 31, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- LATINA Style magazine has selected US Airways (NYSE: LCC) as one of the 50 best companies for Latinas to work for in the U.S. in its LATINA Style 50 Report for 2010. US Airways was the only airline included among the top 50 companies.
Jul 08, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- For the first time since its 2005 merger with America West Airlines, US Airways (NYSE: LCC) scored No. 1 in each of the on-time performance, baggage handling and customer satisfaction measures among the "Big Five" network carriers in the U.S. Department of Transportation's (DOT) May 2010 Air Travel Consumer Report released today.
(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 24, 2008--US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC) today reported its fourth quarter and 2007 results. For the full year 2007, the Company reported a net profit of $427 million, or $4.52 per diluted share, which compares to a net profit before cumulative effect of change in accounting principle of $303 million, or $3.32 per diluted share for the full year 2006.
TEMPE, Ariz., Nov. 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- US Airways (NYSE: LCC) Senior Vice President and CFO Derek Kerr has been named Arizona's Chief Financial Officer of the Year by the Arizona Chapter of Financial Executive International. The award recognizes Kerr's commitment to the community and his professionalism and leadership at Phoenix's hometown airline.
TEMPE, Ariz., Jan. 30 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The new US Airways Group, Inc. (NYSE: LCC) today reported its fourth quarter and 2006 results. Net profit for the fourth quarter was $12 million, or $0.13 per share compared to a net loss of $261 million, or $3.27 per share for the same period last year. Excluding special items of $74 million, the Company reported a net profit of $86 million, or $0.91 per diluted share, compared to a net loss of $138 million, or $1.73 per share in the fourth quarter of 2005. For the full year 2006, the Company reported a net profit before cumulative effect of change in accounting principle of $303 million, or $3.32 per diluted share, which compares to a net loss before cumulative effect of change in accounting principle of $335 million, or $10.65 per share for the full year 2005.​

 

[Crzipilot]

The truth is hurting them everyday. Unfortunately the masochists are hurting everyone else as well. And the implosion continues.

Interesting how with each non-DOH integration, their house of cards falls some more. Notice how DOH used to be in every post. Now suddenly you hear little of DOH or even LOS and mostly hear about Kasher, separate ops forever, and even new wild fantasies about new hires voting to keep it that way.

But there is deafening silence on the subject of 4 (soon to be 5 or 6) SLI's going by slotting/equipment/status/&furloughs on the bottom. Even McCaskill-Bond (something they used to spout against ALPA) has proven them wrong.

Think you should read the award prior to jumping to your conclusions. And before anyone starts looking at that "furloughs" on the bottom, be sure to read his overview of the Midex flying. Such that, due to the dismantling of Midex, and their flying taken over by RAH, (i.e. Midex planes going by by) and the inability (of our favorite all powerful union ALPA) any scope language violation, RAH was able to simply walk in and take over their flying and dismantle Midex flying. Bedford needed somewhere to place airplanes and create a revenue stream for his little operation. Midex fit the bill. If ALPA could have proven something for once in their life, the Midex guys that were hired in the late 70's/80's wouldn't have been stapled, I'm sure......

At the same time, I'm sure you'll come out with the party line of, Well the Midex pilots were alpa. They negotiated their contracts, they voted in their contracts. It's the party line. However, let me make this point. Pilot groups align with ALPA.....as ALPA touts their vast resources and great breadth of airline contracts. They tout their advisors and experts in every aspect of airline contracts. So as a line pilot, paying dues, I expect those experts and advisors to ensure my career protection over the long term via the gobbly gook scope language and other legal terminology found in these contracts. The past history shows utter failure in this regard. But hey, keep spouting the party line. "You Are ALPA" Ya, but we aren't the lawyers being paid hefty sums.....

Sorry, but don't think you can compare this integration to ours.....

 

[exB717Flyer]

Here's a little truth about the arbitrators Conclusion on that award... (looks like he certainly didn't use OUR award as a template)

Of course he wouldn't use the Nicolau list as a template. Two completely different merger scenarios. But it is interesting that Eischen referenced the Nic on page 30:

"An arbitrator asked to intervene in such matters is well advised to remember that
integration of seniority lists through arbitration is necessary because extremely knowledgeable
and experienced negotiators were unable to achieve consensus on an integrated list construction
methodology and related conditions. Such negotiations often deadlock and parties routinely
must resort to interest arbitration because "[t]he merged list cannot be a copy of any list that
previously [applied]; other names now appear. Moreover, no matter the effort in minimizing
unfavorable changes to career expectations, merged lists do change career expectations; it is in
their nature that they do". See US Airway, Inc./America West at 19 (Nicolau, 2007)."

Also of note is the reference to the Addington litigation (though slightly misspelled) on page 46:

"Recent experience demonstrates that concerns over such a disastrously destructive
epilogue are neither alarmist nor simply academic. See, Paddington v. US Airline Pilots
Association, 606 F.3d 1174 (9th Cir. 2010). Delaying implementation of the IMSL for an
undefined open-ended period of time would be more than intolerably corrosive of labormanagement
relations."

So it certainly sounds like Eischen did his research before coming to decision that bears no resemblance to USAPA's idea for a SLI.

 

[Captain Underpants]

I think Kasher is already a loss, but throw me in that briar patch if we win anything (we better at least get 3% a year starting 1 May 10 or our Grievance chair should be fired.)

RR

Reed,

The LOA 93 arbitrator basically has three options to answer the question of what are the pay rates when the pay freeze expired.

1. As the company contends the pay freeze doesn't expire and the rates stay frozen
2. As the union contends the date current LOA 84 rates become effective because the freeze modification has expired and the 18% reduction was conditional to the rates being frozen
3. The LOA 84 rates become effective but the 18% pay reduction changes from conditional to non-conditional and remains in effect reducing the date current LOA 84 rates by 18%
   

It would be extremely difficult to justify option 1 without changing the contract by deleting the expiration date. The arbitrator does not have the authority to change the contract. Option 3 is a possibility by interpreting the contract language in the company's favor. He probably could not just apply the 3% annual increases because that would require some terms of LOA 84 pay provisions to be effective and some not.

We may not know for a while since this arbitrator has been known to sit on his decisions for well over a year and there is no time limit.

underpants

 

[Reed Richards]

Reed,

The LOA 93 arbitrator basically has three options to answer the question of what are the pay rates when the pay freeze expired.

1. As the company contends the pay freeze doesn't expire and the rates stay frozen
2. As the union contends the date current LOA 84 rates become effective because the freeze modification has expired and the 18% reduction was conditional to the rates being frozen
3. The LOA 84 rates become effective but the 18% pay reduction changes from conditional to non-conditional and remains in effect reducing the date current LOA 84 rates by 18%
   

It would be extremely difficult to justify option 1 without changing the contract by deleting the expiration date. The arbitrator does not have the authority to change the contract. Option 3 is a possibility by interpreting the contract language in the company's favor. He probably could not just apply the 3% annual increases because that would require some terms of LOA 84 pay provisions to be effective and some not.

We may not know for a while since this arbitrator has been known to sit on his decisions for well over a year and there is no time limit.

underpants

Thanks. Your logic is flawless. But my past experience with arbitrators gives me pause.

It indeed has been over a year now..the hearings were the first week of Feb 10

RR

 

[Black Swan]

Reed,

The LOA 93 arbitrator basically has three options to answer the question of what are the pay rates when the pay freeze expired.

1. As the company contends the pay freeze doesn't expire and the rates stay frozen
2. As the union contends the date current LOA 84 rates become effective because the freeze modification has expired and the 18% reduction was conditional to the rates being frozen
3. The LOA 84 rates become effective but the 18% pay reduction changes from conditional to non-conditional and remains in effect reducing the date current LOA 84 rates by 18%
   

It would be extremely difficult to justify option 1 without changing the contract by deleting the expiration date. The arbitrator does not have the authority to change the contract. Option 3 is a possibility by interpreting the contract language in the company's favor. He probably could not just apply the 3% annual increases because that would require some terms of LOA 84 pay provisions to be effective and some not.

We may not know for a while since this arbitrator has been known to sit on his decisions for well over a year and there is no time limit.

underpants

Excellent summary. I am hanging it out and saying this is a win for the East pilots. A long time coming. It is going to be very hard for the arbitrator to not see why the letter was crafted and covered the pay issue, no others. Yes, he might buy the company line. There is nothing but upside for the East, either way. If we lose, we just keep status quo and get the upgrades. The west keeps what they have. Nothing changes. If he comes in for us, there is the 18% plus the two 3% the company did not pay. Hang in there, good news takes time.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Excellent summary. I am hanging it out and saying this is a win for the East pilots. A long time coming. It is going to be very hard for the arbitrator to not see why the letter was crafted and covered the pay issue, no others. Yes, he might buy the company line. There is nothing but upside for the East, either way. If we lose, we just keep status quo and get the upgrades. The west keeps what they have. Nothing changes. If he comes in for us, there is the 18% plus the two 3% the company did not pay. Hang in there, good news takes time.

That's right, it's all about you, isn't it BS?

 

[Metroyet]

Hang in there, good news takes time.

You've been waiting for decades. You and the handful of AFOC disciples are alone of an ever shrinking island. The USAPA implosion has reached critical mass as evidenced by their complete inability to sign a simple property lease. If you ever want USAPA to deliver truly good news, they have to take the gun out of their mouths first by overhauling the leadership and replacing them with sane, sentient beings.

 

[Crzipilot]

I dunno, kinda looks like he mentions one small item. that career expectations change vis a vis a merged list (but alas isn't there someone that says career expectations are supposed to be maintained close to expected?)

the other items seems to be him giving a warning, look at US, don't do it that way.

 

[Black Swan]

That's right, it's all about you, isn't it BS?

Just taking whats' due the East pilots in their agreement. Something tells me that the west is going to wish they were part of the deal that is coming.........

 

[CactusPilot1]

Make sure your new hires don't find out. People like BlackSwan and a few others think the new hires will vote your way for separate ops thinking you've got their back. NOT!

The end is near for USAPA. The implosion is starting. First in the halls of the union office, now on this forum. Time to grab some popcorn.

I found a classic some of the Usapian drones might remember from 1984. Enjoy your popcorn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhsWzJo2sN4

 

[CactusPilot1]

Just taking whats' due the East pilots in their agreement. Something tells me that the west is going to wish they were part of the deal that is coming.........

I've read a lot of your....uh opinions.

Just one question.

Where's the beef?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0