US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

I’m of the opinion that it wasn’t AWA’s strong financial health that provided the catalyst for the merger to occur; it was the leadership and vision put forth by Parker, Kirby, McClelland and Kerr that made it possible. In 2005 US Airways was on the ropes and AWA was getting by without flirting with bankruptcy, but it wasn’t a powerhouse either. So what it really comes down to is that it was the AWA management team that made the business case for the merger. That message, based on strong analytics and the strength of Doug’s reputation to accomplish what he set out to do, resonated with the capital investors who were willing to risk their investment dollars to fund the transaction. The merger team convinced investors that combining the two underperforming operations could produce a stronger, more viable airline which could compete effectively both against the LCCs and the big five network carriers. In 2005 many industry experts and media sources predicted the merger would be a catastrophic failure. On the contrary, Doug was projecting that the airline would generate new revenue opportunities while enjoying a more competitive cost structure. Economically, Doug was correct with 2006 Net Income exceeding the original estimates and 2007 producing record profits despite the operational setbacks that occurred with the loss of McClelland’s leadership and Kirby's botched RES migration.

So AWA was the vehicle used by the executive team to demonstrate the requisite confidence in the investment community in order to produce the merger. Still AWA operations were substantially stronger than legacy US was in the years leading up the merger. Nicolau recognized the vast differences between the US and AWA financial positions and based some of his rational on that fact. However, I’m not sure that the board’s ruling would have been all that different if US and HP were essentially equal in status. Slotting by equipment and status would probably have been pretty similar so the whole thread of how Nicolau got it wrong is faulty at best. What do you think he would have come up with if he thought the airlines were financial equals but AWA had no pilots on furlough but US did have many furloughs at the PID?

 

[fodase]

I think they were in and equally weak position, US just would have gotten there first, and so does Doug. I'm done.

You're done? Does it hurt that bad to look at reality? So by your own admission usair get's there first, by default awa was better off even if ever so slightly. I and everyone in the universe that is not an east pilot would say that a bankrupt airline and a non bankrupt airline are not in the same position, an airline that is about to liquidate and one that will declare bankruptcy according to our ceo, are not the same. But thanks for your honesty.

 

[fodase]

Using your logic above, I honestly believe that we should open up our Seniority List to Republic and Air Wisconsin Pilots since they are the one's who's Companies invested in the merger that put AWA/AAA together since NEITHER of the latter had ANY money........

You are damn lucky we didn't merge with republic/wisconsin judging by the most recent award. BTW what the heck does this have to do with the price of tea in china? Oh I get it, when FACTS get in the way obfuscate away.

 

[fodase]

So which usapa supporter is ready to step right up and tell us what the "gold standard" for pilot integrations is in the US of A?

 

[Pi brat]

However, I’m not sure that the board’s ruling would have been all that different if US and HP were essentially equal in status. Slotting by equipment and status would probably have been pretty similar so the whole thread of how Nicolau got it wrong is faulty at best. What do you think he would have come up with if he thought the airlines were financial equals but AWA had no pilots on furlough but US did have many furloughs at the PID?

I think (and did think at the time)that under ALPA merger policy the best US would get would be slotting relative position, with a slight bias upward to account for the high east longevity and resulting higher attrition, and fences to protect the few wide bodies. This would have brought the 16 los furloughs a little ahead of the bottom of AWA.

 

[No Land Green]

You are damn lucky we didn't merge with republic/wisconsin judging by the most recent award. BTW what the heck does this have to do with the price of tea in china? Oh I get it, when FACTS get in the way obfuscate away.

More comedy, thanks. Management has won here, neither side will in the end. I could care less where I am on a Seniority List. This abomination has created the largest completely neutered pilot group on earth. 5000+ pilots with numerous sub factions who have completely different "career expectations".....It's only going to get better LMAO.....I really would love to see 650+ Republic/Air Wisconsin Pilots come in here on top of ALL of us and "school us" on why they should have claim to those positions because THEIR Companies invested THEIR MONEY in this marriage made in hell........

 

[CallawayGolf]

I think (and did think at the time)that under ALPA merger policy the best US would get would be slotting relative position, with a slight bias upward to account for the high east longevity and resulting higher attrition, and fences to protect the few wide bodies. This would have brought the 16 los furloughs a little ahead of the bottom of AWA.

NIC gave the east the WB protections and 2/3 of the attrition with the award so with a few additional tweaks for the bottom active US pilots, the NIC isn’t very much different than what you expected? Seems like a high level of resistance and financial position banter for a SLI that is very close to what you expected. Still, you would grant that the pilots collectively granted the Arbitration Board a wide-range of latitude to determine what was fair and the Award fell well within that tolerance band, even if it wasn’t exactly what you expected it to be, correct?

 

[fodase]

More comedy, thanks. Management has won here, neither side will in the end. I could care less where I am on a Seniority List. This abomination has created the largest completely neutered pilot group on earth.

WRONG! This abomination was created by the east pilots and no one else. If you and yours didn't care we would have all had a raise in 2007 and been working on our second contract. But noooo, you guys threw a hissy fit and decided that stapling the west was a risk worth taking. You clowns created this mess, so do yourselves a favor and man up and take responsability for what you have done instead of blaming everyone else like a spineless group of goats.

 

[No Land Green]

WRONG! This abomination was created by the east pilots and no one else. If you and yours didn't care we would have all had a raise in 2007 and been working on our second contract. But noooo, you guys threw a hissy fit and decided that stapling the west was a risk worth taking. You clowns created this mess, so do yourselves a favor and man up and take responsability for what you have done instead of blaming everyone else like a spineless group of goats.

Really we would be on our second contract? How long did it take to get your last contract? Were you even on the property? You mention "goats", are you the goat video person? LMAO Plan on 10 years living the next contract we get, if we get one.

No the abomination was created by BOTH Pilot Groups, ALPA National and George Nic.

 

[fodase]

I think (and did think at the time)that under ALPA merger policy the best US would get would be slotting relative position, with a slight bias upward to account for the high east longevity and resulting higher attrition, and fences to protect the few wide bodies. This would have brought the 16 los furloughs a little ahead of the bottom of AWA.

PI, esteemed colleagues and board readers, you have witnessed progress being made today. We have discovered that yes, awa was "marginally" better off than usair, and that the Nicolau award is very close to what Pi expected the list to look like. Kidding aside the east leadership is 90% culpable for this. I will admit if i was an east guy and my union GUARANTEED me a doh integration and the Nic. came out I would be very upset. The big problem here is the spineless east leadership, they lied to their members and then, when they couldn't deliver they didn't man up, they blamed everyone else but themselves. Everyone knows the east Merger committee told the leadership that doh would never fly, the east leadership response was to threaten to fire the MC for speaking up. Today we see the same exact tactics from usapa.

 

[fodase]

Really we would be on our second contract? How long did it take to get your last contract? Were you even on the property? You mention "goats", are you the goat video person? LMAO Plan on 10 years living the next contract we get, if we get one.

No the abomination was created by BOTH Pilot Groups, ALPA National and George Nic.

Read much? Yes we would be negotiating our second contract right now. Look around at the other work groups, that is exactly what is going on, negotiations for a second contract under the merged airline. No land you and your east buddies handed parker every ceo's wet dream, believe it, the east did it to themselves

 

[Pi brat]

NIC gave the east the WB protections and 2/3 of the attrition with the award so with a few additional tweaks for the bottom active US pilots, the NIC isn’t very much different than what you expected? Seems like a high level of resistance and financial position banter for a SLI that is very close to what you expected. Still, you would grant that the pilots collectively granted the Arbitration Board a wide-range of latitude to determine what was fair and the Award fell well within that tolerance band, even if it wasn’t exactly what you expected it to be, correct?

Not really. I think the way he did the WB protection was screwed up, and I think it was an unfair method for your senior guys. I'm probably thinking a higher move up for east than you are. I didn't think what was probable was necessarily fair, but under what I considered a flawed ALPA merger policy, the best we would get. ( I have the Kagel award from the PI/US merger and the policy was a lot different). The policy did give the arbitrator a wide band, but the majority of east pilots felt it fell outside the bounds and took steps to appeal it. Whether that "appeal" was legal or not is still to be seen. Only time will tell whether the "appeal" was worth the cost.

 

[No Land Green]

I think (and did think at the time)that under ALPA merger policy the best US would get would be slotting relative position, with a slight bias upward to account for the high east longevity and resulting higher attrition, and fences to protect the few wide bodies. This would have brought the 16 los furloughs a little ahead of the bottom of AWA.

Had the West had the vision to include your last sentence, give that group of ladies and gentlemen some credit for their sacrifice, we wouldn't be having this conversation today. As others have stated here, the West was never going to let that happen. However, The ALPA merger policy now includes LOS as a consideration. I guess since AAA dumped ALPA and UAL with 1400 pilots on furlough, they had to modify the merger policy so as not to lose UAL........We pilots are such visionaries, aren't we? LMAO.........

 

[Pi brat]

Yes we would be negotiating our second contract right now. Look around at the other work groups, that is exactly what is going on, negotiations for a second contract under the merged airline. No land you and your east buddies handed parker every ceo's wet dream, believe it, the east did it to themselves

This is one of the many things that drives me insane about you guys. You say things as facts that cannot be proven. You have no idea if we would have ever gotten the first one. The TA called for separate ratification and with the Nic that was going to be a huge challenge with what the company was willing to cough up. The groups that are now on their second contract didn't have that hill to climb.

 

[No Land Green]

Read much? Yes we would be negotiating our second contract right now. Look around at the other work groups, that is exactly what is going on, negotiations for a second contract under the merged airline. No land you and your east buddies handed parker every ceo's wet dream, believe it, the east did it to themselves

Didn't answer any of my questions. Goat video person? How long did it take to get your last contract? Were you even on the property?

Nope, ALPA and Nic did, with the help of the West. I've talked to West pilots, way before this ever went down, I know your MO from the beginning, nice try though.