US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

We told you the entire time during the Wake trial that things had gone waaaay off the tracks. We were told we just didn't understand! Who was correct?

Not you. They were correct. You lost that case, remember? When the appellate court said "not ripe" they said nothing about going waaaay off the tracks. They just said "not ripe." It just proves you know not what you say when you speak as if the appellate court mentioned anything about merit. They did not rule on the merit of the Addington case. Not ever. Will you ever come to grips with that? Everyone else has come to grips with what "not ripe" means except a few here.

My answer to you, is there is no contract this year, or next. The East has LOA84 pay restoration possibility and Cof C language as hole cards.

Another non-answer. So I'll ask again. If you are proven wrong with all the bold yet unsubstantiated legal interpretations you offer here, will you be man enough to admit you were wrong? Or will you have more excuses and misplaced blame?

 

[CactusPilot1]

Here comes the safety argument again. Name calling aside, if an east pilot can't do his job safely while flying in the right seat next to a person younger than him, or with less years at AWA than he has at US, then it is indeed that said east pilot who lacks professionalism. What does that say about your group? How about the Shuttle pilots? The Delta & NW pilots?

Interesting how you lump everyone into the same barrel as you, while calling others lowlife's. Reality check, not everyone lacks the professionalism that you and your sister lack. I certainly will have no problem slinging the gear for one of my CO counterparts regardless of his age or hire date prior to our merger. If that's the way the SLI goes, so be it. You guys live on an island all your own.

You're right about one thing. There probably isn't enough professionalism in the universe to make up for your groups lack thereof.

Agreed. It is one thing to trade a jab now and then but his or her comments are an insult to the profession.

I've never had a cross word with an East crew. I guess it is easier for some to hide behind a screen name. Bet you this guy or gal would not have the guts to say these things in person.

 

[767jetz]

No one cares about what you post or what you think.

False statement. A lie? Or just mis-spoken? You decide.

 

[Freebird]

Just watched both the pilots and flight attendants latest crew news from PHX.

What jumps out loud and clear is that every single AWA pilot and flight attendant is BLEATING to get the groups put together, while none of the US Airways east pilot or flight attendants want anything to do with the west low lifes.

Very illuminating....

There was also expressed some wishful thinking that is so far from reality as to be bordering on delusional. There isn't enough "professionalism" in the universe to put a low life, job stealing AWA pilot in the left seat with a US Airways east pilot in the right seat some 14 to 16 years senior to him, and expect a safe operation.What an unmigated mess...


Boeing Driver

Your desperation is showing.

"job stealing AWA pilot in the left seat..." Remind me what the upgrade time was at AAA. 21 years? It must chap your hide that upgrade at AWA was 7 years. Reality.

You failed to mention "14 to 16 years senior", but less time on property due to the continuous furloughing experienced by the downtrodden pilots on the East. Integrity Matters.


USAPA = Desperation

 

[767jetz]

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Now answer this - if a pilot bids down from the 76I to the A320, incurring a training freeze with a set term, does he automatically go back to the 76I when the freeze ends?

Jim

Exactly my thoughts throughout this discussion. A freeze means nothing can change for a certain time frame. That time frame may be indefinitely. But it never implies "snap back." It can't be altered while frozen. It just means that when the freeze ends, things can be negotiated again. And we all know how "good" USAPA is at negotiating.

 

[Freebird]

My answer to you, is there is no contract this year, or next. The East has LOA84 pay restoration possibility and Cof C language as hole cards. The west has nothing backing them in a transaction. My other answer to the question you should have asked is the Nic is going to get clarified just like a bunch of crap that floats to the top of greasy soup. Skimmed off, and trashed. My other statement is Doug is going to have so much trouble on the horizon with the AFA and the fact Kirby didn't hedge fuel that this pilot problem he has is going to fade into the backdrop.

Can't wait for you to start insulting Kasher. Senile? Biased? "Spanked"? Which one is your favorite?


USAPA = THE Laughing stock...

 

[Captain Underpants]

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Now answer this - if a pilot bids down from the 76I to the A320, incurring a training freeze with a set term, does he automatically go back to the 76I when the freeze ends?

Jim

Jim,

That's an easy one. The freeze temporarily locks bidding rights. When the freeze expires the pilot then has exactly the same bidding rights as if the freeze never existed. The freeze and all of its limitations disappear completely and forever. Expired....Poof....Gone.

Same with the pay freeze. The freeze temporarily locks pay. When it expires the rates become the same as if the freeze never existed. The pilot does not automatically go back to the 76I just like the pay rates would not automatically go back to the prior 2001 parity review rates either.

underpants

 

[BoeingBoy]

Maybe you've got it - the pay freeze gives the union the rights they had before the freeze, which is LOA 84 rates minus 18%. To negotiate a higher pay rate. If "freeze" has such a common and universally understood meaning, the result of the freeze ending should be the same for a pilot whose training freeze ends or the pilot group whose LOA 93 pay freeze ends. Yet you're arguing that different meanings of a freeze apply to the two situations. If the pilot that has been frozen merely goes back to being able to bid a different position, the end of the pay freeze should mean that the union to being able to negotiate a new payscale.

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

Now answer this - if a pilot bids down from the 76I to the A320, incurring a training freeze with a set term, does he automatically go back to the 76I when the freeze ends?

Jim




A better analogy would be : does the pilot have to negotiate with the company to get his old status back?

No.

And whatever costs the company will incur ( training ) to reinstate that pilot will be incurred.

Game over.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A better analogy would be : does the pilot have to negotiate with the company to get his old status back?

More like he has to negotiate with his fellow pilots, if you think of bidding as negotiations. What you all are doing is treating the end of the pay freeze as a snapback or restoration of what you had before the freeze, while trying every way possible to keep from calling it a snapback or restoration.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Now answer this - if a pilot bids down from the 76I to the A320, incurring a training freeze with a set term, does he automatically go back to the 76I when the freeze ends?

Jim

He goes where he wants. Un frozen. You are trying to apply a human term to money. You can't. Any rational person could infer without question that when a freeze is applied to wages in the context of concessions, they undoubtedly revert to their former state before concessions. Do you honestly believe you could make a case for an arbitrator that when a pay freeze was ended, it would be debatable where it went when done in a concessionary environment in any direction other than its' former state? Why the freeze then? This is why Kasher is going to deliver, he is too intelligent to quibble like this. He just has too much experience with airlines and labor to be misdirected by an irrational supposition as the one you proposed. Most importantly, he is intelligent to not let his bias and prejudice enter into an argument, and always see the negative for the one he disagrees with for an unknown reason.

 

[Black Swan]

More like he has to negotiate with his fellow pilots, if you think of bidding as negotiations. What you all are doing is treating the end of the pay freeze as a snapback or restoration of what you had before the freeze, while trying every way possible to keep from calling it a snapback or restoration.

Jim

OK Jim, if you obey a stop sign and stop, do you then have to consult with your attorney before you begin driving again?Does it mean you have to stop forever? Does it mean you have to stop all activity you are engaged in? You are stretching way beyond reason,you should get a job with the company. They interpret DH in your manner of thinking. They have to pay full for unsched. DH. Then, when your trip is disrupted, they claim the fact they spoke with you on the phone, that is now a scheduled DH!

 

[Black Swan]

Exactly my thoughts throughout this discussion. A freeze means nothing can change for a certain time frame. That time frame may be indefinitely. But it never implies "snap back." It can't be altered while frozen. It just means that when the freeze ends, things can be negotiated again. And we all know how "good" USAPA is at negotiating.

Exactly your thoughts because you know nothing about it, and once again it shows. It never said snap back. Does it say " the pay will be re-negotiated again " Nothing of the sort. This one, is going to be very entertaining. Your bias and BB prevent you from thinking rationally, and it shows.

 

[Barrister]

Here comes the safety argument again. Name calling aside, if an east pilot can't do his job safely while flying in the right seat next to a person younger than him, or with less years at AWA than he has at US, then it is indeed that said east pilot who lacks professionalism. What does that say about your group? How about the Shuttle pilots? The Delta & NW pilots?

Interesting how you lump everyone into the same barrel as you, while calling others lowlife's. Reality check, not everyone lacks the professionalism that you and your sister lack. I certainly will have no problem slinging the gear for one of my CO counterparts regardless of his age or hire date prior to our merger. If that's the way the SLI goes, so be it. You guys live on an island all your own.

You're right about one thing. There probably isn't enough professionalism in the universe to make up for your groups lack thereof.

Jetz,

Since all you are about is truth and justice....why do you care???????????

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[CactusPilot1]

They talk about "spanking" and "schooling," but in the end it will be they who are schooled by the rule of law. For some of them it will be a far fall. Luckily some on the east are starting to see that USAPA is a failed experiment and they were led down the primrose path. For them, the reality will be less painful when it comes.

USAPA is like a mosquito. Very annoying parasite that has no benefit to the host. It just sucks the blood out to sustain itself. Like a mosquito, USAPA was conceived in a cesspool. It buzzes around until it annoys the host to a point of getting squashed. I hope USAPA suffers a similar fate.