US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Ames]

We disagree. I'll get back to you after Judge Silver rules.

seajay

....Looking forward to that!

 

[BoeingBoy]

I suppose if the NIC ever made it to a USAPA contract, that a class of East pilots could emerge who would file a DFR against USAPA for not following their own constitution.

As always, somebody can file a DFR suit for just about anything - winning the suit is a completely different thing. It would be a long shot at best. First, do you really expect that USAPA will accept the Nic without a judicial ruling that they have too. Acting in accordance with a judicial decree means a DFR would go no where. Second, if for some reason USAPA did decide to accept the Nic (pressure from the membership or some other non-judicial reason) a DFR would be a hail mary because legally the union has the authority to interpret it's own constitution & bylaws. So the BPR could decide that the seniority integration language really only applied to future mergers and couldn't be applied retroactively to this merger.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

I suppose if the NIC ever made it to a USAPA contract, that a class of East pilots could emerge who would file a DFR against USAPA for not following their own constitution.

seajay

Although usapa's original constitution placed "establish uniform principles of DOH integrations" as the very first priority within its C&BLs, above all else, you fail to realize that that DFR constitution was written after not only the merger, but after the arbitration that the reneging malcontents wished to avoid.

So, a class of east pilots can sue away til the cows come home. It would never get heard. usapa's constitution was a day late and a dollar short, when it comes to overturning the Nic.

Of course, if by class of east pilots, you mean that if a DOH list is ratified, not only would the West pilots be able to sue, but also a class of east pilots whose DOH was not modified from the Kagel award would now have a ripe case against the usapa lowlifes, then you would be correct.

 

[767jetz]

:blink:

Wow. Have you even read the 9th Circuit's decision?

You keep posting as if not only did the 9th consider the underlying merits of the DFR case and of the Nic award, but also agreed with the East about both.

Amazing how you can misunderstand / overstate so much.

Black Swan doesn't read the actual court documents. (Or if he/she does, he/she has no idea what to make of the words.) So as a result BS turns to the "wailing wall" in flight ops and believes what every armchair analyst on the east says/hopes/prays/wishes-upon-a-star says it all means. Then with USAPA's unwillingness to correct even the most egregious assumptions, they all think they got it wrapped up. BS repeats this stuff on this forum because it gives him/her some sense of validation, no matter how far off he/she is. BS can't even post an entire sentence from the 9th, incorrectly choosing (as many do) to snip only the few words out of context that create the illusion of what they want it to mean.

They talk about "spanking" and "schooling," but in the end it will be they who are schooled by the rule of law. For some of them it will be a far fall. Luckily some on the east are starting to see that USAPA is a failed experiment and they were led down the primrose path. For them, the reality will be less painful when it comes.

 

[nic4us]

Black Swan doesn't read the actual court documents. (

They talk about "spanking" and "schooling," but in the end it will be they who are schooled by the rule of law. For some of them it will be a far fall. Luckily some on the east are starting to see that USAPA is a failed experiment and they were led down the primrose path. For them, the reality will be less painful when it comes.

Actualy, it is not Swan or RR or Capatain Underpants who need the schooling. They are all getting bad info.

Seeham, files a RICO suit, for all the wrong reasons, that gets dismissed with prejudice, appeals and loses the appeal.

Simultaneously, in the course of Addington, threatened rule 11 motions frequently, and now during the company DJ, makes good on the rule 11 threat.

Then walks into Silver's courtroom (the judge that will decide the rule 11 motion against his firm) and accuses the company of bad faith litigation.

All this with a documented record from Wake in the Addington trial, were he held just short of calling usapa and Seeham liars and thieves, only to further the record of the Seeham malfesence with more documentation against Seeham's claim that Wake was biased, brought to light during the West's request to move the company DJ.


There needs to be a "spanking" alright. Hopefully, it will begin with an award of monetary damages against SSM&P in the rule 11 motion. Then once the light is shined on the cockroach in this fiasco, usapa can kick Seeham to the curb, and he can go milk the SWA mechanics for being dumb enough to go for his ambulance chasing techniques.

 

[fodase]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIfKKw-kvPo

 

[mikey60]

Ain't that the truth! Aqua is a savior to the west, he was part of an effective effort which has led to the blocking of USAPA's cram down DOH for three years now. I can't think of a better example than this!

And now we get the FO Bradford letter crying about the wrecking of his creation (when in fact it was an inevitable consequence of an ill- conceived idea)- all brought to you by Leonidas. Look at the company's DJ filing- ALL BECAUSE OF AOL! Thanks you AQUA!!!

God, time to send in another check to keep this ship status quo for just another four or five years. Then the retirements kick in out east and we can combine ops to take our share of the flying back.

You can do that while your walking down that yellow brick road.

 

[Pi brat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIfKKw-kvPo

Wow! These guys missed their calling! Too bad.

Did anyone catch the PHX crew news session? Quite interesting. Can we put the "AWA was kicking butt and taking names" behind us?
What was the story with one pilot beating up another one at a CAL union meeting and getting fired? Sounds interesting. "Please fire that evil eastie Doug!"Hong Kong- Shanghai, potatoe, poetoto(I think she is at every one). And towards the end, talking about Asia and that most of our international opportunities are from the east, but don't worry one day we will have a joint contract!

Almost as good as Youtube.

 

[CactusPilot1]

What was the story with one pilot beating up another one at a CAL union meeting and getting fired? Sounds interesting. "Please fire that evil eastie Doug!"

Yup, saw it. Loved how Dougie dodged the question, it happened off property, don't know much about it, etc. I guess he missed a filed police report or it hit too close to home since he had his mugshot plastered all over the news after his DUI.

He lowered the bar for incidents off the property and gave a USAPA thug a pass.

 

[Boeing Driver]

Just watched both the pilots and flight attendants latest crew news from PHX.

What jumps out loud and clear is that every single AWA pilot and flight attendant is BLEATING to get the groups put together, while none of the US Airways east pilot or flight attendants want anything to do with the west low lifes.

Very illuminating....

There was also expressed some wishful thinking that is so far from reality as to be bordering on delusional. There isn't enough "professionalism" in the universe to put a low life, job stealing AWA pilot in the left seat with a US Airways east pilot in the right seat some 14 to 16 years senior to him, and expect a safe operation.

What an unmigated mess...


Boeing Driver

 

[Crzipilot]

Now if you could only convince Siegel and the company's legal team of the above you would be all set. You do understand they are experts in labor law and see something you conveniently ignore. But go ahead, pass that DOH contract across the table and see what happens.
The company's DJ action is quite telling for a lot of people, and Silver gets it. Tough love coming your way via Kirby and Parker imo.
Things are going great- separate ops and I am happy with my contract for about five more years.

Do you ever step back and read some of the things which you post.....and see if it actually makes sense?

This comment, and the on going crap about the east gaining 700 bodies flying airplanes......the turbo growth we experienced......

I know BB go in there, and didn't follow THAT close, but I would imagine, if you took the total number of bodies flying the line, actually touching controls, an compare that number between two dates. you'd have your answer.

 

[traderjake]

............ while none of the US Airways east pilot or flight attendants want anything to do with the west low lifes.

There isn't enough "professionalism" in the universe to put a low life, job stealing AWA pilot in the left seat with a US Airways east pilot in the right seat some 14 to 16 years senior to him, and expect a safe operation.

Boeing Driver

Shuttle merger......................slotting by equipment and staus.

America West merger.............slotting by equipment and staus.

Delta Northwest merger..........slotting by equipment and staus.

Who's the job stealing low life?

 

[OTTER574]

Just watched both the pilots and flight attendants latest crew news from PHX.

What jumps out loud and clear is that every single AWA pilot and flight attendant is BLEATING to get the groups put together, while none of the US Airways east pilot or flight attendants want anything to do with the west low lifes.

Very illuminating....

There was also expressed some wishful thinking that is so far from reality as to be bordering on delusional. There isn't enough "professionalism" in the universe to put a low life, job stealing AWA pilot in the left seat with a US Airways east pilot in the right seat some 14 to 16 years senior to him, and expect a safe operation.

What an unmigated mess...


Boeing Driver

Very sad, but I think you got things ass backwards...please say hi to ed, lyle and the rest of the pit poi team.


http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/usair.htm

 

[CactusPilot1]

Just watched both the pilots and flight attendants latest crew news from PHX.

What jumps out loud and clear is that every single AWA pilot and flight attendant is BLEATING to get the groups put together, while none of the US Airways east pilot or flight attendants want anything to do with the west low lifes.

Very illuminating....

There was also expressed some wishful thinking that is so far from reality as to be bordering on delusional. There isn't enough "professionalism" in the universe to put a low life, job stealing AWA pilot in the left seat with a US Airways east pilot in the right seat some 14 to 16 years senior to him, and expect a safe operation.

What an unmigated mess...


Boeing Driver

Is that the best you can do? I wanna hear more. Sounds like you neeed to vent.

Grow up Jr.

 

[Black Swan]

BS, Your lack of understanding of the simplest court procedures continues to amaze me.

First, the 9th isn't going to say a word no matter how Judge Silver rules unless someone appeals (although an appeal is likely). That's what Appeals Courts do - handle appeals. Did they speak up in the Addington trial when Judge Wake ruled that case ripe? No. The Appeals Court doesn't monitor the day to day operation of the District Courts.

Second, the 9th ruled on the ripeness of the Addington suit while Silver will be ruling on the companies DJ request - two separate cases. The 9th, in their ripeness ruling on Addington, didn't say a word about the companies legal liability in various scenarios, so however Silver rules she won't be "overriding" the 9th since she's not rehearing the Addington case.

Jim

This is just too funny! We told you the entire time during the Wake trial that things had gone waaaay off the tracks. We were told we just didn't understand! Who was correct? Addington was a judicial circus and you were too busy believing it had standing. Must have been whatever they put on the popcorn. Then we told you the 9th was going to shoot the entire mess down, and we were right on the money. Wake got SPANKED by a bunch of clerks who knew the game much better than a right wing AZ judge. Now Judge Silver is opening Pandoras Box for the company! This is getting more and more entertaining, loved the part about Johnny Come Lately and pension restoration. Where can she go next? I am telling you right now, Judge Silver is going to hit another nail in the west coffin. Your group has yet to score any judicial remedy. The only thing they have done is bag 2 mill for Marty. They have empty threats with their DFR. The East has the same case if it goes against DOH. If someone has no grasp of this case, it is Koontz/Leonidas followed by the westus remoras on this board who pick up the scraps and believe them. As far as the 9th keeping quiet when a judge possibly goes off the tracks again? I bet you are wrong again.If they don't CLARIFY this properly, and with what they had in mind, there will be a statement. I bet they would love to slam it to these crackpot Arizona Judges any opportunity they have. Especially after Wake ran his little Circus and threw it in their laps. The 9th must have been salivating when Wake was mumbling about possibly imposing Nicolau. They most likely were pulling out the 9 irons. That entire Addington was such a mess I can't believe the West or you would even begin to discuss it. Addington to the West is like Gettysburg is to the south. An utter defeat.