US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Evasive. Selective responses to questions. Paranoia.

Describes you to a T Nos...

We discussed this already in previous posts, you elected to evade. Someone like you that stood by and did nothing while watching pilots stapled to the bottom of your pilot list, should not be on this board giving opinions on pilot seniority matters.

Yes we did...after your attacks on me (which you're still repeating). That's your usual tactic when you're asked to back up your assertions - evade by asking questions instead of answering.

Again, you have no right to ask me anything until you either prove your assertions or admit you made it all up. Of course, given your character (or lack thereof) we both know that you can't provide any proof and won't admit making it up.

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

CG,

It's only relevant because that's what preshill used! That's why I took her on. You're a smart guy, figure it out. And it not unresolvable, we solved it, she's wrong. If she wanted to admit that and change the date, or restate what she was thinking, that would have been fine, but she is unable to do that. Get it?

Got it. We resolved the issue. Have a good night.

 

[nic4us]

Evasive. Selective responses to questions. Paranoia.

We discussed this already in previous posts, you elected to evade. Someone like you that stood by and did nothing while watching pilots stapled to the bottom of your pilot list, should not be on this board giving opinions on pilot seniority matters.

Now guy, I am the last person who would tell another poster what they should or should not post, but aparently you are, and the moderators have obviously left the building, so I would like to offer a small piece of advice.

You claim BoeingBoy has a relative on the West. That should be easy to prove, either prove it or STFU.

You claim BoeingBoy was an ALPA rep. That should be easy to prove, either prove it or STFU.

You have not offered a single fact to support any of your rantings. What is it with you?

Also, your obsession with 767jetz and UAL is just plain weird. What happened, UAL turned you down and then you got hired at Empire, or you were working at Empire when UAL turned you down?

 

[sumadarson]

At least you got that part right. Many of your girlfriends like to say I'm not. Wrong on the FPL part though. (Pretty wild accusation from a USAPA shill who is part of a group protecting a convicted child predator. Why haven't you had him fired yet?)


Quite well. Thanks for asking. The JNC has passed every section across the table and waiting for the NMB meetings. Remind me again how many sections USAPA has closed out?

The retro check and equity stake should make up nicely for lost time. Did you happen to see what most Delta pilots got for their equity?

BTW, jealousy does not become you, Nos.

"While many Sections of the JCBA currently remain unresolved and in some cases our proposals are far apart"


""February 4, 2011 JCBA Negotiations Update
The UAL and CAL Co-Chairmen of the Joint Negotiating Committee, along with their ALPA advisors, met with United’s senior management and negotiators in Chicago on Tuesday. The talks were forthright and productive, resulting in scheduled meetings between the parties over the next two weeks and ahead of our scheduled meeting with the National Mediation Board (NMB) on February 18. Based on the productive meeting, the JNC is cautiously optimistic that management has renewed its commitment to completing a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement in the near term. While many Sections of the JCBA currently remain unresolved and in some cases our proposals are far apart, we discussed ways to effectuate productive and meaningful movement and agreed on processes to accomplish this. While the NMB may impose its own processes to complete this JCBA, we are optimistic that we can make substantive headway prior to NMB involvement and thereafter, with NMB assistance but without the necessity of their active participation in every negotiating session.

As always, please stay connected to the process by reading updates from the MEC and your local Council representatives. ""

 

[fodase]

I read them and I can't get a take on her or how she will decide.

You miss my poin entirely. It doesn't matter if she takes the case, she says that the 9th saw harm, she sees harm. That means that once a doh contract is ratified a dfr is likely to prevail. From the transcript:
So Judge Silver reads the entire 9th opinion and says this.

Page 10 lines 18-19


"No question the Court embraced the issue that there was harm to the West Pilots. That was clear."

 

[767jetz]

"While many Sections of the JCBA currently remain unresolved and in some cases our proposals are far apart"

Which is the whole reason for getting the NMB involved, Sherlock. To get the two sides closer. Please tell me you've been through one of these before, junior.

nic4us is right. I think you were jilted by UAL at some point. Jealousy does not become you. You really don't wear it well.

 

[icehead]

I hope you won't be terribly disappointed when your 4 year plan does not come to fruition.

I still don't believe $eham, USAPA(or even the Teamsters) will deliver a DOH list. Four years from now you willl still be making $85 in the right seat while a few people will upgrade due to East attrition.

Hopefully the legal resolution to this tragedy will arrive sooner than later. One can only hope.

Tragedy? Its a disagreement. I hope for your sake you've had the good fortune of not knowing what a tragedy is.

 

[prechilill]

CG,

It's only relevant because that's what preshill used! That's why I took her on. You're a smart guy, figure it out. And it not unresolvable, we solved it, she's wrong. If she wanted to admit that and change the date, or restate what she was thinking, that would have been fine, but she is unable to do that. Get it?

Huh? Dude, you can choose any date you want but what you have not even answered (and won't ever) is how come you have so many more names on the seniority list today than you did in May 2005. DO you understand the significance of May 2005?
As I correctly stated right from the beginning, your seniority list has swelled by 600 pilots since then and the seniority list used for Nicolau proves it. Look it up, it's right there.

And again, how can you reconcile no growth on the east when Monda sits here today 600 numbers deep in your seniority list? You won't address this question either so I do not expect an answer.

http://airlineforums.com/topic/49837-us-pilots-labor-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__780809

Take a look at post 6084...

Silver spoon back in mouth...

 

[prechilill]

Dates are important and May 2005 isn't when the merger occurred so its no more relevant than May of 2004, 3, 2, or any other year or month. The merger was always predicated on removing duplicative and unprofitable east routes as a condition of joining the two airlines - synergies as you may recall. So the best baseline is more like 4Q of 2005 after the initial post-merger fleet changes. You should really care what HP did in early 2005 and west pilots shouldn't really care what US did during that timeframe either. The real baseline is where where operations once the bankruptcy exit plan was fully implemented. Using any other date will just yield unresolvable questions such as we have seen here already.

The January 23rd PIBrat will disagree with you.
Please see post 6084 for your answer:
http://airlineforums.com/topic/49837-us-pilots-labor-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__780809

Of course, the PIBrat from last night agrees with you. Hmmm. It looks like PIB has floating morals and standards, at least from what we can see here.

 

[prechilill]

The reason why Monda has about 600-700 pilots below him is due to recalling pilots prior the age 65 change and due to pilots going out on long term disability. Plus many recalled pilots are still on miltary orders after taking a recall.

While St. Nic was trying to put together the ALPA SLI, USAIR was losing around 200-300 pilots a year prior to age 65 change. Those positions had to be filled by the pilots now below Monda. The snapshot was taken two years before the St. Nic award and during this time recalled pilots were filling the vacancies prior to the age change. When age 65 hit 3 years ago the movement went down to around 50 a year. There are less positions now then there was in 2005.

It is amazing how dense some Westies are in not following this logic. It is exactly the reason why the Nic was so flawed and shows why the West is so desperate in taking those vacancies created on the East.

.Once again. There has been no growth on the East side. Just planes being replaced. Much domestic flying went to the West and the East used those spots lost to add some international. Trying to say the east has grown is really low and shows how blinded they are by greed.

Your seniority list says exactly the opposite dud. Monda has over 600 pilots below him since the merger, it's right there on the wings website. You have had about 150 retirements since the lifeline was thrown your way... do the math.

I know numbers and facts are a little challenging for some of you out east, but I look forward to your link showing 600 retirements since May 2005.

 

[prechilill]

No, no, no......we have to look at MAY 19, 2005 because that was the last day that the two companies were completely separate and the west doesn't want to look at what would have happen in the future(let me correct that, that want to say the certainly would have taken delivery of all those airplanes and kept upgrading guys in 7 years or less, but don't want to look at east attrition). Plus, I'm talking total active pilots that are listed in positions, like on the bid announcement for May where it shows 2605. 2900 sticks in my mind, I hope I have the bid announcement for that time period.

I'm confident prespill will have them, and she said"Look at their seniority list, how much has it grown since May 2005? About 700 numbers!"

Here it is PI... just for you my silver spoon friend. Would you like a shovel?

 

[prechilill]

CG,

It's only relevant because that's what preshill used! That's why I took her on. You're a smart guy, figure it out. And it not unresolvable, we solved it, she's wrong. If she wanted to admit that and change the date, or restate what she was thinking, that would have been fine, but she is unable to do that. Get it?

PIB, May 2005 is the last time a list can be referenced before the lifeline was thrown your way. You seemed to have agreed on January 25th of this too, but I guess you changed your mind or decided it was time to throw more diversions in the debate to keep it off topic. In any event, your type of narcism is difficult to have a meaningful conversation with so there is no reason continuing on. Monda has over 600 pilots below him, your seniority list has swelled quite a bit since the merger. The lists tell you this straight up.
I am sorry you are so angry. The support of the AFOs is dwindling, many of us on the west feel this thing will be resolved with a Nicolau contract within a year. The west looks forward to moving on and I believe I speak for all of us. But you need to temper your emotions.

 

[A320 Driver]

You are a ual alpa pilot. You have been trying to negotiate with your management since 2007. How is it going?

I guess I missed it somewhere that he is a UAL pilot. Why is he poking his nose in like he has something at stake here...he have relatives at LCC or something??? I know anyone can post but what do you care 767JETZ???

Driver <_<

 

[BoeingBoy]

For anyone that has been here for awhile, Jetz is well known as a UA pilot - he's made it clear. He used to come here and debate CM's latest alphabet soup name for US buying UA - a new transaction with the "Chicago based airline" would be right around the corner about every 4-6 months, supported by "the Washington based airline's" exec's divulging inside information on the jumpseat or "conversations in the exec suite".

Not to put words in Jetz' mouth but I think it's largely the entertainment value of the last 3+ years that has drawn him back to this forum. People like Nos missed their calling - they really should be clowns in the circus.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Yet your angry F/Os are willing to sue and delay forever for the second lowest wages, without much attrition to look forward to, so they will still be F/O making less than anyone except east new hires in the right seats! There's some logic.

AOL=send us cash, we send you plastic. (But at least I'm a captain)

Lowest paid 757 drivers in the free world. No Change of Control language. As much as they try to fling it in your face with LOA 93, they are wrapped into it as surely as you are. The highest pay they will ever see is A320.And the next lowest in the industry, with no hope of a raise. That is fact. An East pilot has the 76 and 330 to step up to, and there is more and more international flying coming. More attrition, more jobs. Sit back and watch. The west loses leverage with each passing bid. Tick tock.....