US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

...and tell us again please why you care??

It's just a desire to see justice and the rule of law prevail.

 

[Freebird]

Yet your angry F/Os are willing to sue and delay forever for the second lowest wages, without much attrition to look forward to, so they will still be F/O making less than anyone except east new hires in the right seats! There's some logic.

AOL=send us cash, we send you plastic. (But at least I'm a captain)

Nice try. You're on the losing end of this one and will continue to be. Your loss. Integrity Matters.

USAPA = Lacking.

 

[sumadarson]

ual pilots have been after a contract for years. The following videos provide a parallel situation to Usairways pilots. Since 20007, ual pilots have not been successful in any attempt with their management for a better contract

take a look at the ual videos

 

[BoeingBoy]

You stated that the Empire pilots were treated better than the awa pilots. Explain please.

Nos, as far as I'm concerned you don't have any right to ask me questions until you present evidence of your accusations or admit you made them up. I'm still awaiting either one.

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

Absolutely. We are better off with those additions than we would have been without them, and then shrinking to the min fleet. But that was not preshills original claim. Remember I said the date was important? She said we had grown since May 19, 2005, and net, we have not. We would have been better off with our May 19, 2005 fleet than we are today. Many more would have been upgraded, recalled, then hired.

Let's use something that really grows. You raise tobacco. In 2005 you raise 20 acres. In 2006, and 2007 you decrease your acreage to 15 acres. You remain at that level until 2011 when you raise it to 18 acres.There was an increase in 2011, but did you net"grow" your business from 2005 to 2011? No. Same here.

Dates are important and May 2005 isn't when the merger occurred so its no more relevant than May of 2004, 3, 2, or any other year or month. The merger was always predicated on removing duplicative and unprofitable east routes as a condition of joining the two airlines - synergies as you may recall. So the best baseline is more like 4Q of 2005 after the initial post-merger fleet changes. You should really care what HP did in early 2005 and west pilots shouldn't really care what US did during that timeframe either. The real baseline is where where operations once the bankruptcy exit plan was fully implemented. Using any other date will just yield unresolvable questions such as we have seen here already.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yes, you taught us the game well.

Another condescending remark...

Jim

 

[767jetz]

you suggest that the arb will protect the
furloughed

Nope. I never suggested that at all. Care to post my exact quote?

I said that while the merger committee will TRY to present a case for the furloughs, the EXPECTATION is that they will be placed at the bottom since historically that is what happens when you don't bring a job to the merger.

THAT is what I suggested. Your credibility does not exist since you can't even quote a person's actual words, and just make up lies. Then you play the role of attack dog. Great personality traits there...

 

[Pi brat]

Dates are important and May 2005 isn't when the merger occurred so its no more relevant than May of 2004, 3, 2, or any other year or month. The merger was always predicated on removing duplicative and unprofitable east routes as a condition of joining the two airlines - synergies as you may recall. So the best baseline is more like 4Q of 2005 after the initial post-merger fleet changes. You should really care what HP did in early 2005 and west pilots shouldn't really care what US did during that timeframe either. The real baseline is where where operations once the bankruptcy exit plan was fully implemented. Using any other date will just yield unresolvable questions such as we have seen here already.

CG,

It's only relevant because that's what preshill used! That's why I took her on. You're a smart guy, figure it out. And it not unresolvable, we solved it, she's wrong. If she wanted to admit that and change the date, or restate what she was thinking, that would have been fine, but she is unable to do that. Get it?

 

[Pi brat]

Another condescending remark...

Jim

Just giving it back Jim, and you deserve every bit of it.

 

[sumadarson]

Nos, as far as I'm concerned you don't have any right to ask me questions until you present evidence of your accusations or admit you made them up. I'm still awaiting either one.

Jim

Evasive. Selective responses to questions. Paranoia.

We discussed this already in previous posts, you elected to evade. Someone like you that stood by and did nothing while watching pilots stapled to the bottom of your pilot list, should not be on this board giving opinions on pilot seniority matters.

 

[767jetz]

You make absolutely no sense. Tell us why, when your LOA 93 loss potentially is realized- an East pilot would subsequently throw in the towel, and accept a flawed award that would immediately compound the financial loss by totally removing a widebody upgrade and its' raise? Accepting the Nic would throw out the insurance of NOT accepting the Nic which allows for the attrition to kick an east pilot right up the ladder above a pay level a west pilot will NEVER see.Remember, their largest jet, the 757 pays the same rate as a 320. So much for their great contract. The highest pay level they will ever see, ever, is 320 pay. We on the other hand, have two more levels to go up. Two they never will see. So we are very aware of their career expectations. Your postulation reeks of your obsessive desire to see the corrupt ALPA return. I guarantee you, that, will NEVER happen. We would vote in the AFA long before ALPA. You make NO sense.

First of all they don't need your vote. I'm talking about the pilots already flying the 330 & 767 and sick of doing it for an embarrassing pay rate compared to peers at other airlines. I'm talking about pilots who are tired of your BK era work rules. I'm talking about pilots who will be retiring off LOA93 without ever seeing an upgrade.

Secondly, an industry average contract will mean ALL of your pilots will make more money, not just the few lucky enough to upgrade. Not the even fewer who will ever see the tiny number of widebody cockpits you have. Pretty soon most major airline f/o's will be making as much as your 320 captains.

USAPA won with the slightest of margins. And that margin has slipped already. After the LOA 93 grievance is lost, a representational election will not go USAPA's way. No doubt about it. It is just one more empty broken promise by USAPA and just like you claim with ALPA, it will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

 

[sumadarson]

Nope. I never suggested that at all. Care to post my exact quote?

I said that while the merger committee will TRY to present a case for the furloughs, the EXPECTATION is that they will be placed at the bottom since historically that is what happens when you don't bring a job to the merger.

THAT is what I suggested. Your credibility does not exist since you can't even quote a person's actual words, and just make up lies. Then you play the role of attack dog. Great personality traits there...

You are a ual alpa pilot. You have been trying to negotiate with your management since 2007. How is it going?

 

[sumadarson]

ual pilots have been after a contract for years. The following videos provide a parallel situation to Usairways pilots. Since 20007, ual pilots have not been successful in any attempt with their management for a better contract

take a look at the ual videos

 

[nic4us]

Was I the only one who read the Silver transcripts?

Gotta love page 19. Siegel, the company's lawyer, expressing the opinion of the company, telling the court that the reason for the forming of usapa was to intentionally renege on the arbitration.

Doug may sometimes say things that are not quite true (or whatever that CN quote was), but the company believes usapa is nothing more than an untrustworthy organization founded for the purpose of weaseling out of its agreements. Maybe it was that disingenuous LOA93 grievence filed, or perhaps that USA today ad, or maybe Cleary calling Parker a liar, or some other undisclosed idiotic shennanigans usapa has pulled, but I get the distinct impression usapa is going nowhere.

Gotta also give Seeham credit. Accusing the company of bad faith negotiations, bad faith litigation, quite the claim from the little lawyer who already has a proven track record of both. I am not sure what his arguement was, that he knows it when he sees it cause he does it all the time????? loooooooseeeer.

Yeah, usapa is going to go far.

 

[767jetz]

You are a ual alpa pilot.

At least you got that part right. Many of your girlfriends like to say I'm not. Wrong on the FPL part though. (Pretty wild accusation from a USAPA shill who is part of a group protecting a convicted child predator. Why haven't you had him fired yet?)

You have been trying to negotiate with your management since 2007. How is it going?

Quite well. Thanks for asking. The JNC has passed every section across the table and waiting for the NMB meetings. Remind me again how many sections USAPA has closed out?

The retro check and equity stake should make up nicely for lost time. Did you happen to see what most Delta pilots got for their equity?

BTW, jealousy does not become you, Nos.