US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

CallawayGolf,

I reread you question and that didn't really answer it. I have no idea since we can't really come up with how many have actually been recalled and hired. The above is more a summary of how the replacement of narrow body aircraft with wide body T/A and E190 affected employment.

Okay but your original answer did demonstrate that current vs.the potential status quo of few international destinations and fewer WB/ ETOPS aircraft and no 190's clearly shows that the east would have been worse off if Management had just maintained the minimum fleet count with old NB aircraft and didn't add the 190's. So it's not just natural attrition causing the movement, recalls and new hires. What you call that benefit seems to be the crux if the discussion. Is it expansion, growth, or what - I don't know. Sure seems to me in terms of the number of east active pilots there are more now than if the new 330's other better aircraft and new international destinations, and the 190's had never been added. These factors have nothing to do with movement due to attrition. In other words the east would have been much worse has the post-merger 2005 fleet and destinations remained the same.

 

[sumadarson]

Still those baseless accusations Nos? I'm still waiting for your proof...

You are an alpa shill. You were a pilot of a group that stapled the Empire Pilots to the bottom of your list. Your family member is involved and you are biased. Look back at your thousands of posts, you have opined and not proved any of your statements. You have never provided a link to base any of your opinions or assumptions on.

Now you ask me to do so. I outed you, get over it.

 

[sumadarson]

USAPA president Mike Cleary told a colleague today that USAPA is unable to obtain a new contract for US Airways' pilots. In my opinion, Cleary is correct because USAPA cannot get a deal until all sections of the contract, including Section 22, are complete. Therefore, under USAPA US Airways' pilots will be the lowest paid most over worked pilots in the industry for an indefinate period.

You are the quintessential reason why Usairways pilots left alpa.


usa320 verbage.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

If the East domestic flying that now accounts for the 24% of West block hours had not been transferred, the East would have maintained more Group II aircraft and would be well north of the 202 fleet minimum and the West would have seen a bigger RIF. Both East and West saw reduction for economic and or management decisions. Of what remained, East domestic flying was shifted West to comply with block hour minimums and the East flying was back filled with more international flights because their hubs generate the feed. No matter how many time you shuffle the shells around, there is no argument to be made that the East experienced any growth or that the reduction was worse for one side or the other.

 

[Pi brat]

Okay but your original answer did demonstrate that current vs.the potential status quo of few international destinations and fewer WB/ ETOPS aircraft and no 190's clearly shows that the east would have been worse off if Management had just maintained the minimum fleet count with old NB aircraft and didn't add the 190's. So it's not just natural attrition causing the movement, recalls and new hires. What you call that benefit seems to be the crux if the discussion. Is it expansion, growth, or what - I don't know. Sure seems to me in terms of the number of east active pilots there are more now than if the new 330's other better aircraft and new international destinations, and the 190's had never been added. These factors have nothing to do with movement due to attrition. In other words the east would have been much worse has the post-merger 2005 fleet and destinations remained the same.

Absolutely. We are better off with those additions than we would have been without them, and then shrinking to the min fleet. But that was not preshills original claim. Remember I said the date was important? She said we had grown since May 19, 2005, and net, we have not. We would have been better off with our May 19, 2005 fleet than we are today. Many more would have been upgraded, recalled, then hired.

Let's use something that really grows. You raise tobacco. In 2005 you raise 20 acres. In 2006, and 2007 you decrease your acreage to 15 acres. You remain at that level until 2011 when you raise it to 18 acres.There was an increase in 2011, but did you net"grow" your business from 2005 to 2011? No. Same here.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Still waiting for a simple answer.

Don't hold your breath then. Without more info than any of us apparently have, a simple answer won't be found any time soon. As I have already said as an answer, I certainly don't have the info to make an apples to apples comparison of active pilots. I suspect that East has fewer active pilots now than in May 2005 but more than it would have if the A332's, 757's and E190's hadn't arrived plus the additional staffing needed for the existing 757's hadn't happened, all post merger events.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Don't hold your breath then. Without more info than any of us apparently have, a simple answer won't be found any time soon.

Jim

Yes, I thought so. You silence is enough.

 

[Pi brat]

Don't hold your breath then. Without more info than any of us apparently have, a simple answer won't be found any time soon.

Jim

On another note, have you read the Kagel award lately? Isn't it amazing the difference in the merger policy from then until 2005? Your Kagel number was higher than mine now. Were you still on the 727 in 1989? Were you a blockholder? Did the Kagel bump you out of the 727, out of C/O or back to reserve?

 

[sumadarson]

Don't hold your breath then. Without more info than any of us apparently have, a simple answer won't be found any time soon.

Jim

You stated that the Empire pilots were treated better than the awa pilots. Explain please.

You are on here daily, pontificating on seniority matters and you were part of a group of pilots that stapled others to the bottom of your list. You are a hypocrite sir.

""SENIORITY:
Seniority s h a l l continue t o be governed by the provisions of Section 19 of the
Basic Agreement except as follows:
A. Former Enpire p i l o t s shall be placed on the Piedmont Pilot System
Seniority List on January 3, 1986 following the most junior Piedmont
p i l o t i n the same order that they appear on the Empire Pilot Seniority
List dated January 15, 1986.""

 

[Freebird]

There has been a loss and of jobs and stagnation on the East since the merger, 200 actual positions, more if you consider that the 150 E190 positions were replacement for higher paying group II jobs. The West has had reduction and stagnation as well and it had nothing to do with USAPA as it did the run up in fuel costs, followed by the financial meltdown and dubious decisions on fuel hedging and investment securities.

The only reason the reduction and stagnation has affected the West more is they lacked the attrition contained withing the East seniority list. In fact if it weren't for East routes that can support $100 barrel of oil and the 24% of West required block hours being flown on said routes, the reduction and stagnation on the west would have been deeper.

The West frustration lays in the fact that Monda and many other East pilots are advancing from attrition and will continue to do so at a generous clip despite the RIF of the last 6 years because of attrition the West claims has limited or no value. Monda will likely be mid range block holding Group 1 FO, or a very senior Group 2 FO this time next year, and be a Captain if he wants within a couple years of Age 65 retirements commencing.

No, the West frustration come from your lack of honoring your agreements. Oh yeah, and the fact that you are willing to fly for such low wages while counting the days until you 'upgrade' to Captain and still get paid less than a SWA F/O. Your ego is rotting your decision making ability.


USAPA = Low pay 'til the last day. (But at least I'm a captain.)

 

[Pi brat]

Oh yeah, and the fact that you are willing to fly for such low wages while counting the days until you 'upgrade' to Captain and still get paid less than a SWA F/O.

Yet your angry F/Os are willing to sue and delay forever for the second lowest wages, without much attrition to look forward to, so they will still be F/O making less than anyone except east new hires in the right seats! There's some logic.

AOL=send us cash, we send you plastic. (But at least I'm a captain)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yes, I thought so. You silence is enough.

Since you like to aim those condescending remarks at those seen as on the other side so much, I'd thank you for not being upset when you perceive the same from others. Or perhaps you've adopted a double standard...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

If the East domestic flying that now accounts for the 24% of West block hours had not been transferred,

It was not.

As a matter of fact, the company violated West min block in Aug 2008 when it transfered a disproportionate amount of flying to the east, thereby lessoning the amount of furloughs on the east, while the West took a full 10% reduction in force.

Where is the money for that grievence win by the way? We won that a looong time ago. What is the problem with Parrella? What kind of grievence committee can't get paid for a grievence they already won? Maybe the kind that has more pressing issues than it DFR to West pilots. Like how to go about its constitutionally mandated renegeing on binding arbitration.

 

[Pi brat]

Since you like to aim those condescending remarks at those seen as on the other side so much, I'd thank you for not being upset when you perceive the same from others. Or perhaps you've adopted a double standard...

Jim

Yes, you taught us the game well.

 

[Freebird]

What part don't you get JETZ we could greet the West guys with open arms and flowers and NIC doesn't mean a damn thing
until it is part of a CBA. This foamimg at the mouth to get NIC tells us all we need to know.

NICDOA
NPJB

The East has played it cards (poorly) and the West is aware of your lack of character and integrity. So, why would the West trust the East with anything? You cannot keep your word, you sue pilots, you are trying to prop up your 'lacking' career at the expense of the West. This foaming at the mouth to get DOH tells us all we need to know. It's a good thing for the West that your leadership is a failure.

USAPA = Had enough yet? $40,000-$50,000 a year from your pocket to Parkers bank account.