US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

Answer: Per ALPA merger policy, the current relative seniority of "legacy" United pilots will not change.

Just like it didn't change for any of you Destitute Eastholes. Ever wonder why it seems you're living on an island?

 

[traderjake]

You biggest concern should be whether you are going to be fired. (AGAIN) Cleary and Parella might not save you this time.!!!!

And you can't wait to see it happen.

 

[No Land Green]

Does a CLT hub work with ATL? No!

Still waiting for one of you east guys to explain how you split this pig. Or who would want more east coast commuter flying?

The East Operation would blend nicely with AMR. PHX is the problem with UAL and AMR. The pilot seniority fight just opens doors and buys time for Management with fragmentation, atta boy George Nic and ALPA. As time passes it appears as if AWA needed to merge more than AAA did. Standing by for the "you were going to liquidate" blather.......That was BS too. AAA just needed(s) a leader not the continual line of real estate brokers wanting their HUGE commissions. LCC is not a good fix in any merger, but the parts are.

 

[A320 Driver]

Really! You think that you have any of this?

It all belongs to the company. There is no ours and yours.

But just to remind all you east guys. You are older than the west so it is you that will be splitting. SEEEE YA!

So travelers have been seeking an alternative for decades. So where is it? Could it be that there is no alternative? You merge DAL and LCC, CLT is redundant at best. An alternate for bad weather in ATL.

It's been hilarious watching the transformation you clowns have made since the Nic. In the beginning it was all about protecting PHX. Now it's all about cashing in on an East operation that St. Nic said had no value. Enjoy your little rants...I know I do!

Merge with DAL...is this the new "Corporate transaction" theory??? That doesn't even make a good joke. DAL couldn't beat us...they just wanted us to go away. Didn't happen. "Almost" only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

Driver B) B)

 

[767one]

A rare admission of the truth, Bob. We all know/have known that beneath all the arguments against Nic, the real reason the east wants DOH is to make the west furlough fodder for the bottom of the east list. Not exactly fair considering those same west pilots came to the merger with a job and the junior east pilots did not. So much for keeping what you bring. Also not fair considering the reasons and circumstances that put 17 year pilots on the bottom, furloughed, with little job security had nothing to do with the west.

So all other arguments aside, if there was reduction in work force, those who were furloughed before should be furloughed first again. That's usually how it works. Doesn't matter how close they are to retirement. Their career progression (or lack thereof) should not be subsidized by us.

One more thing worth noting is that your statement about furloughs is not accurate. DL did not furlough after their merger. They are in fact going to hire. UA has also not furloughed. What happens there remains to be seen, but all indications are that they will be recalling and then hiring.

As for attrition, you on the east are welcome to 2 thirds of the upgrades that you brought. But then again, Nic already accounts for that.

Nogo,

As far as furloughs after the next merger I have found that it is generaly better in the airline business to plan on the worst thing that can happen then you won't be disapointed very often.

Regards,

Bob

 

[traderjake]

The East Operation would blend nicely with AMR. PHX is the problem with UAL and AMR.

The American pilots will fight just as hard as the Delta and United pilots to make sure it nevers happens.

No one is wants a group of bitter, old pilots who can't be trusted.

 

[doh nogo]

Nogo,

As far as furloughs after the next merger I have found that it is generaly better in the airline business to plan on the worst thing that can happen then you won't be disapointed very often.

Regards,

Bob

I agree. Like I said, those who were furloughed when the merger took place should be the first to be furloughed in a future merger. After any new hires that took place subsequent to the merger of course. Again, the admission of using the west as furlough fodder is what we all know is the biggest driving force behind the push for DOH. It has nothing to do with fairness.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Facts. Steady diet of non-sugarcoated facts out here in the West.



What is usapa feeding you? Just wondering, because none-nada-zip-zilch-zero of their pipedream predictions, have come to pass.

No quick contract, no breaking the self imposed impasse, no DOH contract, nobody even willing to discuss DOH with them. You tasted that "cost neutral" contract yet?

They are too busy fighting each other about the location of the USAPA's "World Heaquarters" in CLT and dining with Hoffa. They are so dysfunctional, the police are getting called to protect little USAPs from being pounded on by big USAPs.

Hoffa and the Teamsters must be proud. True professionals.

 

[Barrister]

The American pilots will fight just as hard as the Delta and United pilots to make sure it nevers happens.

No one is wants a group of bitter, old pilots who can't be trusted.

You, of course, include yourself in that description...yes??

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[A320 Driver]

No one is wants a group of bitter, old pilots who can't be trusted.

And lousy grammer..don't forget that Traitor.

Driver B)

 

[cleardirect]

The East Operation would blend nicely with AMR. PHX is the problem with UAL and AMR. The pilot seniority fight just opens doors and buys time for Management with fragmentation, atta boy George Nic and ALPA. As time passes it appears as if AWA needed to merge more than AAA did. Standing by for the "you were going to liquidate" blather.......That was BS too. AAA just needed(s) a leader not the continual line of real estate brokers wanting their HUGE commissions. LCC is not a good fix in any merger, but the parts are.

You guys crack me up. You never think things through.

Is Nicolau dead or not?

If Nicolau is dead why would you want to fragment? It removes about 1500 west guys as furlough fodder for the east.
If we fragment it remove about $3 million in dues money that helps fund the cost of a $10 million union. How are you going to pay the difference?

You guys got an extra $2 million burning a hole in your empty pockets to pay for another merger?

If you merge with AMR, DAL or UAL they are all the bigger group. You all have been telling us that the majority rules and they get to decide what the integration should be. Right! So your C&BL demand DOH. How did that demand work out last time with the arbitrator? So when it goes to arbitration again except this time you have no ability to compromise, any guesses how that ends up? Plus you have such great negotiators.

WB pilots go to the top of the list. How many WB pilots do the other airlines have compared to the east? Could be the east pilots start at around 1500 down the list.

Yep sure sounds like a good idea to me. Fragment and delay your new contract another couple years. How many retire on LOA 93 wages in the next 3 years?

Maybe the Nicolau is not as dead as you all keep telling yourself and fragmentation is the only way you get out of final and binding arbitration.

I suggest that you go to the next crew news and start demanding that from Parker. Better yet get that all powerful union to force Parker to fragment. What's that you say usapa has no leverage.

 

[Phoenix]

You, of course, include yourself in that description...yes??

NICDOA
NPJB

Everything except the "old" part... he's been 39 for years.

 

[Zone5]

The American pilots will fight just as hard as the Delta and United pilots to make sure it nevers happens.

No one is wants a group of bitter, old pilots who can't be trusted.

All this derogatory talk about the "old pilots" on the East confuses me, if I was working for a company that merged with one that had a very large contingent of "old pilots", I would consider that to be a good thing. I would imagine that a group of pilots from another acquiring airline, might be more interested in waiting for the East attrition than the West seems to be. The guy just above me on the NIC list will be here for 22 years after I retire. Buy the way, I've never been furloughed. I guess it's that "young pilot" mantra thing: "I want it all and I want it now!"

seajay

 

[BoeingBoy]

I guess it's that "young pilot" mantra thing: "I want it all and I want it now!"

Actually that's the East mantra - how many times has it been posted that if the West pilots just wait x years they'll inherit the airline? And in that x years pretty much everything goes to East pilots - attrition for both sides, moving up for both sides, etc. All the West wants is what Nic said was fair - the West's roughly 1/3 of movement.

Jim

 

[Zone5]

Actually that's the East mantra - how many times has it been posted that if the West pilots just wait x years they'll inherit the airline? At nausea And in that x years pretty much everything goes to East pilots - attrition for both sides, moving up for both sides, etc. All the West wants is what Nic said was fair - the West's roughly 1/3 of movement.

Jim

You're defining movement as a combination of growth and attrition, they are not the same thing. I think 1/3 of growth is reasonable. Based on the projected retirement numbers, 1/5 of attrition would be closer to the number for the West. I don't expect the West to want anything they never had in the first place. I know I don't want or expect any movement based on West attrition, I wouldn't really. I think "Dougie" has made it pretty clear that the company has close to zero plans for growth, however, I would even vote for the West keeping all growth that occurs out West.

All this stuff is not rocket science, it's pretty simple mathematics to come up with the specific ratios, it should have been adequately addressed to everyone's satisfaction from the get go, it still could be.

"how many times has it been posted that if the West pilots just wait x years they'll inherit the airline?" Lots of times, I would suppose. Because it's true.

seajay