US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

Another thing, what 9 out of 10 west pilots miss is that I have said I don't believe DOH is the end all be all, and I think you will have a pretty good case WHEN DFRII is ripe.

Once again pi brat...you're missing the point...the company must walk hand and hand with you/usapa/east malcontents in dfr land. This will not happen and history proves me right. Parked by the nmb comes to mind.

Otter

 

[nic4us]

MDA was operating on the mainline certificate and had a USAir call sign, so it's highly debatable whether or not Varini was flying a mainline jet. No I was not at MDA.

Stapling only exists with the Nic Award, not in a DOH List. What did you think, we on the East were going to recall the 1700 pilots and furlough the West Pilots as we recalled the East? You backfill with recalls as you retire. LOS not being considered by either side was a HUGE costly mistake for ALPA National, yet they now have changed their merger policy to include LOS. Why is that?

All MDA pilots had furloughed AAA pilots ahead of them in seniority in relation to the AAA seniority list.

Again, the West was not added to the AAA list. The AWA list was merged with the AAA list. Monda was the junior non-furloughed pilot on the AAA list, regardless of who flew what and how at MDA.

DOH staples 85% of the West pilots below Monda.

You are correct that the Nic has stapling. All furloughed pilots were stapled below Odell, the most junior pilot who was actually employed at either AAA or AWA on the PID.

 

[Pi brat]

Once again pi brat...you're missing the point...that the company must walk hand and hand with you/usapa/east malcontents in dfr land of which this will not happen and history proves me right.

Otter

Otter, you might be right, but a few months ago you were adding up your damages, so pardon me if I don't just take your word.

 

[doh nogo]

So you are saying that throughout the process the east never gave Nicolau any indications of what it was trying to protect and after all that time he was so blind that AFTER MEDIATION, he had to come back and get a clue? He didn't probe those areas while in MEDIATION, trying to define each needs/wants? If that's the case he was crazier that I thought.

You can lead a horse to water... The east wasn't having any of it. DOH or nothing. Your merger committee failed you. You elected those who put them in place. You elected those who threatened recall if anyone on the merger committee didn't tote the line. Your MEC neutered them. Your group stood by while the corruption of the east ran rampant. No one else to blame for your "internal union matters."

 

[No Land Green]

Once again pi brat...you're missing the point...that the company must walk hand and hand with you/usapa/east malcontents in dfr land of which this will not happen and history proves me right.

Otter

I hate to sound like a broken record, but, sincerely, I can't find anywhere where someone has come forward and stated "you MUST use the Nic List". Until that happens, and if it has, well the Company is admittedly stalling Negotiations by not moving forward until the Seniority Issue is resolved. According to you it already is and has been.

Again, "accepting" is not the same as stating the "NIC List MUST be used".

 

[Pi brat]

You can lead a horse to water... The east wasn't having any of it. DOH or nothing. Your merger committee failed you. You elected those who put them in place. You elected those who threatened recall if anyone on the merger committee didn't tote the line. Your MEC neutered them. Your group stood by while the corruption of the east ran rampant. No one else to blame for your "internal union matters."

You are wrong. It was not DOH or nothing. The east committee looked at other options but came to the conclusion that the west would not met us anywhere near the middle and decided to go ahead with LOS.

 

[Pi brat]

Oh most definitely.

We had one camp arguing we need to wait for usapa to pass the list at the table. We had another camp saying, well there is a statute of limitations issue, that will certainly be argued if we wait.

So, after hearing the advice we made a decision.

Chose the right course I might add.

I mean lately, after the loss in SFO and the SCOTUS.

 

[OTTER574]

I asked the question Otter. What makes the seniority list different from any other section of the contract? Each section has the potential to harm one group when it helps others. I wondered if it was implied that it will not be changed because we had an agreed upon process to come up with the list, BUT I DO NOT KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!! WE WILL SEE, BUT WE HAVEN'T YET. Clear?

pi brat...Why do we have a Transitional Agreement with lcc? So someone like you/usapa can make things up as they go along..change a cba to get out of final and binding? sorry dude but this won't happen.

State where the west pilots have protections within the TA?

I know and you may not like this but...it's in MY CONTRACT of which usapa must enforce by FEDERAL LAW. Or get sued via DFR standards of which will be easy to prove again!

Otter

 

[doh nogo]

You know what? If you ever answered a question without added points and b.s. I would fall out of my chair.

But you did answer and from what I remember you are correct, the Nic is better for the east than the BEST offer from the west. So, as much as the east hates the Nic, isn't that telling about the west's efforts to reach a fair and equitable list? Why all the b.s. about what the east did during neg/med when the west came no where near passing a proposal the east could consider?

You're just not getting it. It was not the responsibility of the west to find a solution that the east found fair or as you put it one that the east would consider. It was quite clear from their actions that they would not "consider " anything that didn't start with DOH. You can't reason with the unreasonable. The west had the responsibility to come up with a solution that a neutral third party would consider fair. Same responsibility as the east. That Nic came up with a solution similar to what the west proposed, but with 518 east on top to account for wide bodies proves that the west offer was closest to what would be considered fair by a neutral third party and the east was off the reservation. Not even close. No one there was in the room to appease the east.

 

[Pi brat]

You can't reason with the unreasonable.

The same was told to me by an east member that I trust, so I will take his word over yours. Doesn't really matter now, does it?

 

[OTTER574]

You are wrong. It was not DOH or nothing. The east committee looked at other options but came to the conclusion that the west would not met us anywhere near the middle and decided to go ahead with LOS.

pi brat, That's a total LIE made by you.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

pi brat...Why do we have a Transitional Agreement with lcc? So someone like you/usapa can make things up as they go along..change a cba to get out of final and binding? sorry dude but this won't happen.

State where the west pilots have protections within the TA?

I know and you may not like this but...it's in MY CONTRACT of which usapa must enforce by FEDERAL LAW. Or get sued via DFR standards of which will be easy to prove again!

Otter

Confidence is a great thing, just don't spend those damages yet.

 

[doh nogo]

You are wrong. It was not DOH or nothing. The east committee looked at other options but came to the conclusion that the west would not met us anywhere near the middle and decided to go ahead with LOS.

Yeah. Like "how many of our furloughs can go ahead of your pilots?"

 

[Pi brat]

pi brat, That's a total LIE made by you.

Otter

Ok you loud mouthed m.f., you prove that . I have the person that told me that, what do you have?

 

[Pi brat]

Yeah. Like "how many of our furloughs can go ahead of your pilots?"

You sound pretty informed, were you a member of the west MC? If so, give me the best offer to the east pilots and tell me, did the east MC not employ a company to come up with a list that wasn't DOH? Were you in the room for all east only sessions? If not, how do you know what was discussed?