US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

The west never found a fair middle ground! You show me the best west offer and we will see how fair it was. It takes two to compromise and neither side did.

The contract is mainly being drawn out because of the seniority issue and you know it. The west has been a big part of that.

I was not on the committee, but from what I remember, I have got to call you on this one.

The West's opening offer during arbitration was far and above a much more fair solution than anything the east ever offered. Up to and including when Nicolau told the east to come off their position.

The east comes in with they want DOH (a system that would staple 85% of the West pilots, and totaly screw the other 15%, after seeing the company's joint statement of labor principles, ALPA's merger facts, and the entire mediation process), but did the West counter with, hey, we are aquiring you, we want to staple 85% of your pilots? No, the West did not.

Our first offer of a straight slotted list was plenty fair, considering the opposition's stance.

 

[Pi brat]

I've answered your questions to the best of my ability...Maybe you should've asked the same questions to your former and current CBA prior to entering into a final and binding arbitration?

Otter

How would I ask them those questions BEFORE it happened. I don't care what they think. It is you that is using the TA to come to the conclusion that section 22 MUST be the Nic. I'm not saying you are wrong that in the end it may be, but I don't see it from the reading of the TA. So, want to try again and answer the very simple question?

 

[Pi brat]

What LIST was ACCEPTED by the company PI BRAT that met the TA?==NIC. Again reread ALL of the TA. The list has been accepted and is PAST TENSE. NO REDO with corrupt usapa and the malcontents from the east.

Otter

It absolutely has been ACCEPTED by the company, but does that mean it can never be changed? The TA contains min. fleet numbers, can they never be changed? The company ACCEPTED USAPA as the CBA, can it never be changed? I really don't know about the seniority list, but I have the feeling it can be changed, but it is a very narrow path in order to avoid a valid DFR.

 

[Pi brat]

It is better. Not by a lot but better. Is DOH better or worse for the west than the last offer from the east?

We let a neutral decide. He decided that the east overreached. By a lot.

You know what? If you ever answered a question without added points and b.s. I would fall out of my chair.

But you did answer and from what I remember you are correct, the Nic is better for the east than the BEST offer from the west. So, as much as the east hates the Nic, isn't that telling about the west's efforts to reach a fair and equitable list? Why all the b.s. about what the east did during neg/med when the west came no where near passing a proposal the east could consider?

 

[No Land Green]

The east comes in with they want DOH (a system that would staple 85% of the West pilots, and totaly screw the other 15%, after seeing the company's joint statement of labor principles, ALPA's merger facts, and the entire mediation process), but did the West counter with, hey, we are aquiring you, we want to staple 85% of your pilots? No, the West did not.

"a system that would staple 85% of the West pilots".......That is a mathematical LIE in a DOH Scenario, that is a FACT!!!!!

 

[Pi brat]

I was not on the committee, but from what I remember, I have got to call you on this one.

The West's opening offer during arbitration was far and above a much more fair solution than anything the east ever offered. Up to and including when Nicolau told the east to come off their position.

The east comes in with they want DOH (a system that would staple 85% of the West pilots, and totaly screw the other 15%, after seeing the company's joint statement of labor principles, ALPA's merger facts, and the entire mediation process), but did the West counter with, hey, we are aquiring you, we want to staple 85% of your pilots? No, the West did not.

Our first offer of a straight slotted list was plenty fair, considering the opposition's stance.
[/quote

Show us. I remember a certain proposal that I believe was presented in PIT and I remember being so angered that I thought we might as well stick with DOH if that is their idea of fair.

To be fair to both MCs, I believe the entire ALPA merger policy is geared towards getting it to the arbitrator so that everyone involved can say " It wasn't my fault!"

 

[No Land Green]

It absolutely has been ACCEPTED by the company, but does that mean it can never be changed? The TA contains min. fleet numbers, can they never be changed? The company ACCEPTED USAPA as the CBA, can it never be changed? I really don't know about the seniority list, but I have the feeling it can be changed, but it is a very narrow path in order to avoid a valid DFR.

What's interesting is anything can be changed, yes even the list. Nothing is binding until a JCBA is reached, the West ALPA Lawyer said the Nic was a "bargaining position", just as every item is during negotiations.. The only fact that can't be changed is your date of birth.

If Management can ONLY use the Nic List, this information would have been put forth officially a long time ago. We could all sue the Company if this is fact for intentionally delaying a JCBA.

 

[No Land Green]

Show us. I remember a certain proposal that I believe was presented in PIT and I remember being so angered that I thought we might as well stick with DOH if that is their idea of fair.

To be fair to both MCs, I believe the entire ALPA merger policy is geared towards getting it to the arbitrator so that everyone involved can say " It wasn't my fault!"

I believe it was a 1 for 1 ratio.

The ALPA Merger Policy does lead to unavoidable arbitration, oh and it's changeable too(again), for UAL to hopefully get the 1000 pilots on furlough something for their 10 years of service.

 

[Pi brat]

I believe it was a 1 for 1 ratio.

That good! How could we have turned down that very gracious offer?????????

I hope UA pilots get all the deserve.

 

[nic4us]

"a system that would staple 85% of the West pilots".......That is a mathematical LIE in a DOH Scenario, that is a FACT!!!!!

Quit pretending your furloughed status or MDA employment gets you a position above pilots that were actually employed at either AAA or AWA on the PID.

The fact is you keep pointing to Varini as employed, he was not, that is the fact, and why he is the absolute last name on the Nic.

One more thing, his zero months LOS at either AAA, AWA or LCC are not going to get him his 2004 DOH at wherever he was hired, above the last 150 West pilots.

 

[OTTER574]

It absolutely has been ACCEPTED by the company, but does that mean it can never be changed? The TA contains min. fleet numbers, can they never be changed? The company ACCEPTED USAPA as the CBA, can it never be changed? I really don't know about the seniority list, but I have the feeling it can be changed, but it is a very narrow path in order to avoid a valid DFR.

Pi Brat, please show some legal history/precedence in regards to changing a legal list via the TA and Federal Courts of Law? I've a hunch, none will be found or posted by you.

I hope you'll be the first witness brought to stand trial in a FEDERAL COURT of LAW with your candor if dfr2 comes to fruition. The companies DJ filing is just a duck and cover on their part. Hoping no harm or foul on their part. The TA is a living and breathing contract, proven by the west block hour grievance WIN.

My union dues have been accepted by my CBA to enforce stated contract..My current CBA is now called usapa.

Otter

 

[No Land Green]

Quit pretending your furloughed status or MDA employment gets you a position above pilots that were actually employed at either AAA or AWA on the PID.

The fact is you keep pointing to Varini as employed, he was not, that is the fact, and why he is the absolute last name on the Nic.

One more thing, his zero months LOS at either AAA, AWA or LCC are not going to get him his 2004 DOH at wherever he was hired, above the last 150 West pilots.

Was neither.

Varini was on the Official East Seniority List as he is today.

Quit spouting the 85% staple lie.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi Brat, please show some legal history/precedence in regards to changing a legal list via the TA and Federal Courts of Law? I've a hunch, none will be found or posted by you.

I hope you'll be the first witness brought to stand trial in a FEDERAL COURT of LAW with your candor if dfr2 comes to fruition. The companies DJ filing is just a duck and cover on their part. Hoping no harm or foul on their part. The TA is a living and breathing contract, proven by the west block hour grievance WIN.

My union dues have been accepted by my CBA to enforce stated contract..My current CBA is now called usapa.

Otter

I believe it was changed at UA, for the 500+, wasn't it?

 

[No Land Green]

That good! How could we have turned down that very gracious offer?????????

I hope UA pilots get all the deserve.

I talked to an AWA Pilot way before this ever went to arbitration. The were well educated on the East demographics, that coupled with the weak ALPA Merger Policy, they knew what to do........."keep your eye on the prize".......remember that?

 

[Pi brat]

I hope you'll be the first witness brought to stand trial in a FEDERAL COURT of LAW with your candor if dfr2 comes to fruition.

Otter

I feel kind of honored, thanks Otter!