US Pilots Labor Discussion

[gizmo_sc]

Could someone put in a nutshell where US Airways is with the PILOTS union?

 

[Pi brat]

Oh, you must have met the guys that contributed $20 just to get their name on the list that turn 63 this year. Did they buy you a prune latte at Starbucks for taking the time to listen on how that $20 might have been better spent (denture paste, Viagra - one pill, support hose, a couple of Old Fashion's at the hotel bar)???

Keep clicking those ruby shoes Dorothy, Oldie has a pair just like them.

Oh, BTW...for every AWA pilot that you claim to have met that is sour about his $20 investment....I'll bet we have 1-2 that are SILVER or higher in contributions. Have a blessed and wonderful day.

Oh that doesn't sound like an angry F/O! Poor 63 year old west captains and what they must have to put up with.

 

[john john]

Could someone put in a nutshell where US Airways is with the PILOTS union?

in the courts

 

[Pi brat]

Could someone put in a nutshell where US Airways is with the PILOTS union?

Limbo, awaiting legal ruling(s) on which seniority list will be used. I'm guessing 2-3 more years,

 

[OTTER574]

The west never found a fair middle ground! You show me the best west offer and we will see how fair it was. It takes two to compromise and neither side did.

The contract is mainly being drawn out because of the seniority issue and you know it. The west has been a big part of that.

Sorry Pi Brat but I disagree. Yes the west found middle ground through the process known as negotiate, mediate and ARBITRATE! There's no redo of a FINAL AND BINDING ARBITRATION of which AWA pilots and AAA pilots entered into.

As far as the contract is concerned, my CBA will follow the contract or get sued under the painful and unquestionable RIPE DFR.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Not at all. It is each sides responsibility to come to the table and position themselves to the best advantage of their side. It is also each sides responsibility to not appear to "over reach." Then each side negotiates with the direction of the mediator. When the mediator/arbitrator (the guy who you agreed to let make the final decision) starts forming his opinion and directing you as to which way it is going to go, even going so far as to make recommendations that might help your case, and you thumb your nose at him, that's just plain stupid. That's what you get blasted for.

Wasn't the place for that in the neg./med phase? Once it made it to arbitration wasn't it up to Nic to determine what was fair since the two sides could not agree?

 

[Pi brat]

Sorry Pi Brat but I disagree. Yes the west found middle ground through the process known as negotiate, mediate and ARBITRATE! There's no redo of a FINAL AND BINDING ARBITRATION of which AWA pilots and AAA pilots entered into.

As far as the contract is concerned, my CBA will follow the contract or get sued under the painful and unquestionable RIPE DFR.

Otter

I actually agree with most of this post, except the no redo part. There has been a redo, or we would be using the Nic list today. Whether the redo will work in the end, I have no idea.

And you are correct, the union WILL sued for DFR if it doesn't use the Nic, but we have to get that contract first and the west is doing NOTHING towards that little piece of the puzzle.

 

[OTTER574]

I actually agree with most of this post, except the no redo part. There has been a redo, or we would be using the Nic list today. Whether the redo will work in the end, I have no idea.

And you are correct, the union WILL sued for DFR if it doesn't use the Nic, but we have to get that contract first and the west is doing NOTHING towards that little piece of the puzzle.

Pi Brat, Please reread the TA of which we operate under.

Once we have a joint contract with lcc, the NIC is IT. So ask yourself....who's stalling?

Otter

 

[Black Swan]

Pi Brat, Please reread the TA of which we operate under.

Once we have a joint contract with lcc, the NIC is IT. So ask yourself....who's stalling?

Otter

More opinion from Otter that flies in the face of the 9th Court of Appeals S.F. But that is ok. They say it does not, but what do they matter? Denial is a wonderful thing! Waiting on Mr. Kasher. If it goes East, I will be patiently waiting to see the plan for that. The East will have an immediate and new contract. There most likely will not be a joint contract forever. It will have that much impact.It is coming soon. Buckle up!

 

[Pi brat]

Once we have a joint contract with lcc,

Tell me Otter, what are the west pilots doing to make "once" come true? You guys have told us over and over that we can't do it without you, you point out that it takes a joint contract to get to DFR II, but I see NOTHING from west guys to get you there. That leads me to believe that you would rather take your chances with Doug's suit. So be it, but what if he runs out through all the courts and fails, what then? Will you then start pushing for a joint contract? Will you then stop telling Doug that USAPA is a joke and you will cross their lines?

And Otter, I have read the TA many times. I do not see where is says that the integrated seniority list will be implemented or never amended. Can you show me where it says that?

 

[cleardirect]

The west never found a fair middle ground! You show me the best west offer and we will see how fair it was. It takes two to compromise and neither side did.

The contract is mainly being drawn out because of the seniority issue and you know it. The west has been a big part of that.

Really. Never found middle ground. I guess it depends on your definition of middle ground. If you mean the east stands on DOH/LOS and waits for the west to come 75% of the way than you move 5%. That is not middle ground.

Would you say that the Nicolau award is closer to your position or the west position? Seems that the arbitrator thought that our position was middle ground. What did he tell the east pilots again. Oh yeah you were not going to get what you demand. Change your position. How did that work out?

Sorry if the west is keeping you from stealing from us. If you guys would only abide by your agreement we could move on. BTW usapa is telling anyone and everyone that will listen that seniority is settled. Now what is USAPA’s excuse?

It is the east that decided not to live up to your word. Blame yourself. That is the delay. That and USAPA’s inexperienced and incapable negotiators.

 

[Pi brat]

Really. Never found middle ground. I guess it depends on your definition of middle ground. If you mean the east stands on DOH/LOS and waits for the west to come 75% of the way than you move 5%. That is not middle ground.

Would you say that the Nicolau award is closer to your position or the west position? Seems that the arbitrator thought that our position was middle ground. What did he tell the east pilots again. Oh yeah you were not going to get what you demand. Change your position. How did that work out?

Sorry if the west is keeping you from stealing from us. If you guys would only abide by your agreement we could move on. BTW usapa is telling anyone and everyone that will listen that seniority is settled. Now what is USAPA’s excuse?

It is the east that decided not to live up to your word. Blame yourself. That is the delay. That and USAPA’s inexperienced and incapable negotiators.

Tell me something, is the Nic better or worse for the east pilots than the best offer put forth by the west MC?

 

[luvthe9]

Man don't you wish.

You still don't get it. Leonidas is just a couple of guys who formed an LLC. Leonidas isn't what's beaten you. The West has beaten you. It's the overwhelming majority of West pilots who have contributed who made the defense of West seniority a reality. No promises, just action.

USAPA is the ENRON:

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Seham_Badali.mov

Where's your DOH?
Where's your contract?
Why are you going on year seven of a BK contract?
Who hasn't delivered?

USAPA: making a Prater-led ALPA look good.

Koontz has given his flock false hope, taken their money. Spent their money, hand over fist. Why didn't the West pilots bone up on the Ripeness terminology? There was no ripeness. How can you send Marty Harper off on a mission that would never have one chance of success Didn't Koontz understand Wake was in over his head, far over his head. To the point he had the gall to almost have imposed the Nicolau? The NMB lawyers were boarding the planes with parachutes, ready to drop in and straighten out the courtroom run amok. How do the Leonidas LLC founders continue to get your donations? They have yet to deliver, yet your hard earned money is delivered to the furnace guided by amateur legal advice. Someone needs to ask Ferguson and especially Koontz to show their credentials with regard to NMB and contract issues. Marty Harper is taking them on a fantastic and expensive ride.

 

[OTTER574]

More opinion from Otter that flies in the face of the 9th Court of Appeals S.F. But that is ok. They say it does not, but what do they matter? Denial is a wonderful thing! Waiting on Mr. Kasher. If it goes East, I will be patiently waiting to see the plan for that. The East will have an immediate and new contract. There most likely will not be a joint contract forever. It will have that much impact.It is coming soon. Buckle up!

alpa could've moved away from the NIC==unquestionable ripe dfr

usapa can move away from the NIC==unquestionable ripe dfr.

No denial black swan, This has been known for some time now...please get with the program.

Don't forget who's sitting across from the table at the NMB mediated talks black swan? answer==LCC and usapa will be PARKED.

Otter

 

[luvthe9]

Really. Never found middle ground. I guess it depends on your definition of middle ground. If you mean the east stands on DOH/LOS and waits for the west to come 75% of the way than you move 5%. That is not middle ground.

Would you say that the Nicolau award is closer to your position or the west position? Seems that the arbitrator thought that our position was middle ground. What did he tell the east pilots again. Oh yeah you were not going to get what you demand. Change your position. How did that work out?

Sorry if the west is keeping you from stealing from us. If you guys would only abide by your agreement we could move on. BTW usapa is telling anyone and everyone that will listen that seniority is settled. Now what is USAPA’s excuse?

It is the east that decided not to live up to your word. Blame yourself. That is the delay. That and USAPA’s inexperienced and incapable negotiators.

Richard Kasher MYTHBUSTER!