traderjake
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 5,669
- 9,308
Facts like we are still making LOA 93 wages and the NIC award is still the seniority list.
Ignorance is bliss.
US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Richard
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Facts like we are still making LOA 93 wages and the NIC award is still the seniority list.
Ignorance is bliss.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
PI, did you ever wonder why they chose the badge?I mean think of all the other things they could have choosen.
A DP beer can.
Little buttons with cities that awa flies to. The more you give the further away you get.
Coins with the unlucky 18 awa pilots on them, alphebetically to increase value.
Pins with the Seven Dwarfs on them.
Ribbons with all the awa crew bases.
sumadarson
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2010
- 851
- 905
I have a new video of the CAL pilots that I will post soon, stick around for the truth without the spin. Line up and wait!
GorgeousGeorge
Senior
- Apr 29, 2008
- 326
- 357
An even better reason to be out of ALPA. Quietly a couple of years ago, ALPA settled out of court with RJDC, a group of pilots from Comair and ASA that brought suit for the natural conflict of interest in scope clauses where carriers on either side of it are represented by ALPA. As part of the settlement, ALPA made numerous changes to is negotiation policy manual as well as a national scope committee. A union with ALPA who shares same airline code can no longer unilaterally negotiate scope, a consensus must now be reached amongst the multiple MEC's or the President of ALPA can be required to intervene. The UAL/CAL negotiations will be the first to test these changes as Tran States, Commutair, Mesa, and Colgan all share UAL/CAL code and are all represented by ALPA.
One of the benefits to independent union status or a differing union than your code share partners is that no legal conflict of interest exists, nor as in ALPA now you must consider the desires of your code share partners or face the potential of the national union interfering in your scope negotiation process. Another brilliant failure to see the forest for the trees by ALPA. US Airways pilots ought to breathe a sigh of relief that whatever is negotiated for scope is entirely in your hands with no interference.
- Banned
- #6,907
US Pilots crossed the IAM picket line in 92, were seen cleaning planes during the 30 day cooling off period and strike.
Stuck sweetheart deal with US to get paid no matter if they flew or not, US grounded DC9s, MD80s, 737-200s, F28s and F100s, yet all pilots got paid.
Hey NOS,
You know what they say about a glass house?
Stuck sweetheart deal with US to get paid no matter if they flew or not, US grounded DC9s, MD80s, 737-200s, F28s and F100s, yet all pilots got paid.
Hey NOS,
You know what they say about a glass house?
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
http://www.savecalpilots.com/News_and_Information.html
Note the comments on Nicolau and merger furloughed pilots. These are his words. I added emphasis to make it real easy for some of our elderly lurkers to see very plainly:
A UAL pilot Opinion:
As a UAL pilot I appreciate the hard work that went into building this site, but I am equally appalled by the hand wringing and fear mongering that is taking place with so little debate. I hope you will indulge me for a moment as I attempt to counter some of the more wild assumptions floating around this site.
1) CAL pilot career expectations will be torpedoed.
- Prior to this merger no UAL pilot with whom I spoke considered this to be anything other than a merger of equals. Everyone was excited to be a part of the world's biggest airline and were looking forward to fighting the company together on issues critical to everyone like SCOPE and retirement protections.
- CAL has 300+ plane. UAL has 300+ planes. CAL had firm orders for 86 planes. UAL had firm orders for 50 planes plus 64 737s parked in the desert. Both airlines have been in existence over 3 decades and although the hiring has not fallen in the same bands, the overall age makeup is similar.
- CAL has retirements of about 4% a year through 2020, and UAL has retirements of about 3% through 2020, but from 2020 to 2030 UAL has retirements of 4% and CAL has retirements less than 3%.
- Recent decisions including the Nicolau USAIr arbitration as well as the DAL/NWA SLI arbitration have both emphasized that only active pilots be considered when creating an SLI.
. . . merging active pilots with furloughees, despite the length of service of some of the latter, is not at all fair or equitable under any of the stated criteria . . .
- The ISSL for DAL/NW made no reference to what airplane the relative groups flew and considered only the categories of WB Cap/ NB Cap and WB FO/NB FO. Even though it is the duty of the UAL MEC and the CAL MEC to posture to the best of their advantage no one is being fooled.
the parties to this dispute are deeply divided, as is apparent from their respective proposals: Each does little more than stack the deck for their own constituencies in ways that are neither fair nor equitable . . .
. . . we have rejected the notion (proposed, from time-to-time by both parties) of numerous categories, each seeking to define and segregate groups of aircraft according to various operating characteristics. We have chosen, instead, to recognize the fleets as divided simply into wide-body and narrow-body groupings, two for Captains, two for FOs. For purposes of counting aircraft and staffing assumptions, thus creating ratios in each category, we have selected a “snapshot” date of July 1, 2008.
I have much more to add, but sadly not enough time at the moment. Let me finish by saying that I for one am excited to someday fly with my new partners at CAL out of EWR and I don't particularly care if it costs me slightly in the present because I am convinced that if we work together the future holds great pay raises, improvements in QWOL, new base opportunities, 787 and A350 flying plus a whole lot more. I only hope I have "cracked the door open" for a few of the naysayers here to realize that maybe just maybe we (the UAL pilots) are NOT out to take your jobs and what we bring to the combined company including new bases, new plane types, and so much more is not really all that terrible.
Sincerely,
Xxx Xxxx
UAL pilot
Note the comments on Nicolau and merger furloughed pilots. These are his words. I added emphasis to make it real easy for some of our elderly lurkers to see very plainly:
A UAL pilot Opinion:
As a UAL pilot I appreciate the hard work that went into building this site, but I am equally appalled by the hand wringing and fear mongering that is taking place with so little debate. I hope you will indulge me for a moment as I attempt to counter some of the more wild assumptions floating around this site.
1) CAL pilot career expectations will be torpedoed.
- Prior to this merger no UAL pilot with whom I spoke considered this to be anything other than a merger of equals. Everyone was excited to be a part of the world's biggest airline and were looking forward to fighting the company together on issues critical to everyone like SCOPE and retirement protections.
- CAL has 300+ plane. UAL has 300+ planes. CAL had firm orders for 86 planes. UAL had firm orders for 50 planes plus 64 737s parked in the desert. Both airlines have been in existence over 3 decades and although the hiring has not fallen in the same bands, the overall age makeup is similar.
- CAL has retirements of about 4% a year through 2020, and UAL has retirements of about 3% through 2020, but from 2020 to 2030 UAL has retirements of 4% and CAL has retirements less than 3%.
- Recent decisions including the Nicolau USAIr arbitration as well as the DAL/NWA SLI arbitration have both emphasized that only active pilots be considered when creating an SLI.
. . . merging active pilots with furloughees, despite the length of service of some of the latter, is not at all fair or equitable under any of the stated criteria . . .
- The ISSL for DAL/NW made no reference to what airplane the relative groups flew and considered only the categories of WB Cap/ NB Cap and WB FO/NB FO. Even though it is the duty of the UAL MEC and the CAL MEC to posture to the best of their advantage no one is being fooled.
the parties to this dispute are deeply divided, as is apparent from their respective proposals: Each does little more than stack the deck for their own constituencies in ways that are neither fair nor equitable . . .
. . . we have rejected the notion (proposed, from time-to-time by both parties) of numerous categories, each seeking to define and segregate groups of aircraft according to various operating characteristics. We have chosen, instead, to recognize the fleets as divided simply into wide-body and narrow-body groupings, two for Captains, two for FOs. For purposes of counting aircraft and staffing assumptions, thus creating ratios in each category, we have selected a “snapshot” date of July 1, 2008.
I have much more to add, but sadly not enough time at the moment. Let me finish by saying that I for one am excited to someday fly with my new partners at CAL out of EWR and I don't particularly care if it costs me slightly in the present because I am convinced that if we work together the future holds great pay raises, improvements in QWOL, new base opportunities, 787 and A350 flying plus a whole lot more. I only hope I have "cracked the door open" for a few of the naysayers here to realize that maybe just maybe we (the UAL pilots) are NOT out to take your jobs and what we bring to the combined company including new bases, new plane types, and so much more is not really all that terrible.
Sincerely,
Xxx Xxxx
UAL pilot
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
Sound of crickets from USAPA diehards.
sumadarson
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2010
- 851
- 905
You forgot to mention how your union thugs took innocent passenger bags and defecated in them and sent them on their way during your self help during that time. It has been said that your associates lacked a high fiber diet.
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
USAPA diehards' obsessions over feces. What's with that? First the RICO defendants, now the ramp workers. Aside fro the fact that none of what the diehards allege is true, what's the big deal? Everyone takes USAPAs. Everyone around here has been taking USAPAs since the day they were born.
sumadarson
Veteran
- Nov 17, 2010
- 851
- 905
The following video is from the alpa continental pilots, as they describe radio free Newark, regarding seniority integration with ual pilots. The video starts out with music and visuals that make it appear it is the beginning of a non gender specific (not that there is anything wrong with that) pornographic movie. How appropriate, they of course feel ual will be the recipient of their money shot in the future seniority arbitration.
Continental pilot jim brucia was a pilot “neutral” for the failed nicolau fiasco of the Usairways, america west pilots integration. brucia wrote a patronizing dissenting opinion, following orders of then alpa president prater. Brucia and prater go way back to the IACP, the independent continental pilots association. They both shoved alpa down the throats of their union pilots. It was their attempt to be known as a group of real pilots. This was their attempt to deflect the fact that their pilot group was dominated by picket crosser's. A solid history of conflict of interest brucia. brucia even has a slide that has the list of airlines that he protected cal pilots from. One slide even lists america west in 1994.
dan katz, who was an alpa designated “representative” of usairways east pilots during the nicolau fiasco is now working closely with brucia, what a coincidence. katz will be mentioned in the video.
My favorite quotes of the video are as follows;
“We are merging numbers, not positions.”
“No pilot will be disadvantaged in an integration because they chose to remain an f/o.”
Hey, nice try prater, gillen, brucia. You attempted this with a group you painfully underestimated.
America West pilots you were used in the alpa scheme to steal from the Usiarways pilots. It must have been rewarding to be considered for a short amount of time as real airline pilots. The nicolau was too good to be true, because it was.
brucia, alpa "neutral" pilot, click here.
Continental pilot jim brucia was a pilot “neutral” for the failed nicolau fiasco of the Usairways, america west pilots integration. brucia wrote a patronizing dissenting opinion, following orders of then alpa president prater. Brucia and prater go way back to the IACP, the independent continental pilots association. They both shoved alpa down the throats of their union pilots. It was their attempt to be known as a group of real pilots. This was their attempt to deflect the fact that their pilot group was dominated by picket crosser's. A solid history of conflict of interest brucia. brucia even has a slide that has the list of airlines that he protected cal pilots from. One slide even lists america west in 1994.
dan katz, who was an alpa designated “representative” of usairways east pilots during the nicolau fiasco is now working closely with brucia, what a coincidence. katz will be mentioned in the video.
My favorite quotes of the video are as follows;
“We are merging numbers, not positions.”
“No pilot will be disadvantaged in an integration because they chose to remain an f/o.”
Hey, nice try prater, gillen, brucia. You attempted this with a group you painfully underestimated.
America West pilots you were used in the alpa scheme to steal from the Usiarways pilots. It must have been rewarding to be considered for a short amount of time as real airline pilots. The nicolau was too good to be true, because it was.
brucia, alpa "neutral" pilot, click here.
- Banned
- #6,913
An out rite lie, explain how mechanics, stock clerks or utility did this when we dont handle baggage nor go near it?
Dream up something more believable.
aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
Steal from whom? Your 1800 furloughs that you brought to the merger? Your bottom of the industry pay and work rules? Your nonexistent retirement? Your ratty old 767s and handful of A330s? You had nothing to lose, which is why you want what doesn't belong to you - West seniority. You are the thief. Already you have stolen all the expansion A330 flying, the EMB flying and the ATA 757s. Have you no shame?
You picked him, just like the East picked Nicolau.
Okay, question time.
On how many occasions have you personally talked to either Doug Parker or Scott Kirby?
I am thinking it is a number, as Scott would say, that is very close to zero, as in it actually is zero.
Unless of course, your real identity is that you are Mike Cleary, in which case, you are too big of an idiot to understand anything Doug or Scott say to you, like when they wanted the seniority deal settled prior to a merger announcement, so instead of fixing the deal you run to the 9th with an emergency request and help torpedo the issue.
So, what is it, talked to the boss lately?
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