US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

That's your problem to deal with. On the East we have other issues to deal with.

Every single issue you have to deal with out East will not get resolved until this contrived seniority "dispute" is vetted. So, using logic, seniority is very much your problem. It's they key problem actually. I wouldn't think I'd have to explain that.

 

[Black Swan]

That's not what he said and you know it.

What Prater was stating is the obvious: an arbitrator is afforded wide latitude in forging a determination. He or she is not reviewed under the same scrutiny as a judge. There is no appealing an arbitrator's decision that they misapplied the law. When a matter is submitted to an arbitrator, the parties have little recourse after the decision is made. Congress created arbitrations and the courts will NEVER overturn a binding arbitration. The only toe hold USAPA has is the grey area of it duty to fairly represent. DFRs are normally losers, but typical DFRs don't involve binding arbitrations. USAPA is the first to charge head first believing they can shelve an arbitration and still meet their duty to fairly represent the West. No court in the land will allow USAPA to get away with it. The courts have given USAPA a second chance to get religion. Once again, they're failing miserably. It should be more than obvious to even the diehard USAPA sheep that the company is not going to bargain away from the Nic.

Enjoy LOA93.

Aqua, I am going to rebut that no matter what you just said, and there is a lot of fact in it- the bottom line is ALPA is gone. Therefore the Nic is gone. Just as the 9th said. But I know a lot of you on this board continue to forget what the 9th clearly said. Your option. As far as the continued LOA 93? We shall see. But if Kasher comes in with a win, and he should soon- it will be a total game changer. Far more than you realize. The continued taunts are going to be really a mistake. Because you should actually realize the bar would be set a lot higher. Cut your nose off to spite your face is something that comes to mind.

 

[luvthe9]

Everything USAPA does is about seniority. That's why they had a DFR shoved up their tailpipes in record time and will get it again when the time is "ripe."

The only thing that was shoved, was the bill in the direction of Leonidas.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Aqua, I am going to rebut that no matter what you just said, and there is a lot of fact in it- the bottom line is ALPA is gone. Therefore the Nic is gone. Just as the 9th said. But I know a lot of you on this board continue to forget what the 9th clearly said. Your option. As far as the continued LOA 93? We shall see. But if Kasher comes in with a win, and he should soon- it will be a total game changer. Far more than you realize. The continued taunts are going to be really a mistake. Because you should actually realize the bar would be set a lot higher. Cut your nose off to spite your face is something that comes to mind.

If the Nic is gone, then where is your DOH? And why are you still under LOA93?

Answer: because neither goes away. No taunting. Just facts. USAPA and the Angry F/Os are the kings of taunts: frivolous RICO, Might Makes Right philosophy, we'll sell DOH to a bean counter with a cost neutral contract. That's you and your ilk. No skin off the Wests' backs. The worst is behind us. Now we just wait. And watch!

 

[aquagreen73s]

The only thing that was shoved, was the bill in the direction of Leonidas.

How many East pilots having trips canceled because of the snowstorm and losing money? The bill is far less for the West, and it's been well worth it.

We sit and we watch!

 

[Black Swan]

If the Nic is gone, then where is your DOH? And why are you still under LOA93?

Answer: because neither goes away. No taunting. Just facts. USAPA and the Angry F/Os are the kings of taunts: frivolous RICO, Might Makes Right philosophy, we'll sell DOH to a bean counter with a cost neutral contract. That's you and your ilk. No skin off the Wests' backs. The worst is behind us. Now we just wait. And watch!

Waiting on the clarification as far as that goes. You know that. LOA 93 stays until a new contract. LOA 84 pay restoration is the question at hand. And we shall know soon on that. The snow storm? You do know about the last trip provision in the contract? If they lost anything due to the storm, they were pay protected. They tell me Kasher is quite the scribe. He better be writing quite the tome for all the time he has taken. Hopefully it has East Happy Ending........By the way, go on Wings. Quite a few of us got the 767 bid. That is a raise right there.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Waiting on the clarification as far as that goes.

Clarification? Did you bother reading the post hearing briefs?

Hopefully it has East Happy Ending........

Easter Bunny anyone?

By the way, go on Wings. Quite a few of us got the 767 bid. That is a raise right there.

Every captain I fly with makes more than you 767 captains. $160k is an average paycheck for line holding captains. And they sure as heck get a lot more time off than the East captains, not to mention the extra two weeks of vacation.

The snow storm? You do know about the last trip provision in the contract? If they lost anything due to the storm, they were pay protected.

Today is February 1st dude.

How many weather cancellations does this make for the East this winter season? West pilots were getting 28 hour trips last week and then getting their next trip pay protected. Nearly 50 hours of pay for five days of work.

 

[kubotapilot]

A well informed source (sorry to borrow one of captain M's lines) has just told me that Kasher is writing the decision as we speak and should be out very soon...

Waiting on the clarification as far as that goes. You know that. LOA 93 stays until a new contract. LOA 84 pay restoration is the question at hand. And we shall know soon on that. The snow storm? You do know about the last trip provision in the contract? If they lost anything due to the storm, they were pay protected. They tell me Kasher is quite the scribe. He better be writing quite the tome for all the time he has taken. Hopefully it has East Happy Ending........By the way, go on Wings. Quite a few of us got the 767 bid. That is a raise right there.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Clarification? Did you bother reading the post hearing briefs?

Easter Bunny anyone?

Every captain I fly with makes more than you 767 captains. $160k is an average paycheck for line holding captains. And they sure as heck get a lot more time off than the East captains, not to mention the extra two weeks of vacation.

Today is February 1st dude.

How many weather cancellations does this make for the East this winter season? West pilots were getting 28 hour trips last week and then getting their next trip pay protected. Nearly 50 hours of pay for five days of work.

Doesn't matter if your captains are making more for the past few years than ours. Taken over the span of the last twenty years, our pilot group left you west whiners in the dust. From a financial standpoint, I will take my career over any west pilot in a heartbeat. None of your captains will come close to career earnings of the typical east captain before retirement. Oh, and by the way, we at least get PBGC. You?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Doesn't matter if your captains are making more for the past few years than ours. Taken over the span of the last twenty years, our pilot group left you west whiners in the dust. From a financial standpoint, I will take my career over any west pilot in a heartbeat. None of your captains will come close to career earnings of the typical east captain before retirement. Oh, and by the way, we at least get PBGC. You?

1800 of your pilots weren't getting any paychecks after 9/11. The ones that remained have been getting BK wages since '04. Every West captain has been a captain for at least ten years, most having been captains for more than two decades. The fact is that most of your current pilots haven't been able to cash in on the gravy years because they were either too new or too junior to gain much. That's why they are no so desperate to steal any captain seat that isn't nailed down. They're mid 50s and they're bitter. Time is closing in on them and the thought of LOA93 for another 5-10 years is unthinkable for them. Hence, the shrieking from Komrade Kleary for a contract. He knows that if something doesn't happen soon (and it won't), then there's going to be a stampede on the East to get a contract at any cost, with or without the Nic.

 

[Barrister]

1800 of your pilots weren't getting any paychecks after 9/11. The ones that remained have been getting BK wages since '04. Every West captain has been a captain for at least ten years, most having been captains for more than two decades. The fact is that most of your current pilots haven't been able to cash in on the gravy years because they were either too new or too junior to gain much. That's why they are no so desperate to steal any captain seat that isn't nailed down. They're mid 50s and they're bitter. Time is closing in on them and the thought of LOA93 for another 5-10 years is unthinkable for them. Hence, the shrieking from Komrade Kleary for a contract. He knows that if something doesn't happen soon (and it won't), then there's going to be a stampede on the East to get a contract at any cost, with or without the Nic.

Got a prediction for you pal. This company has low costs. Making money. Much better shape than others
in a cirsis. This company isn't going anywhere. As long as we are turning a profit nothing of substance
HAS to happen one way or another. Is the sky falling. NO....now my point. In another 2 years we loose
200-250 and it may not take that long if guys with lots of sick time hit the road. My prediction.....when
we start moving up 200+ per year and have new hire classes every month....YOU ON THE WEST WILL COME UNGLUED.
You rag us about. LOA 93. News flash for you....WE ARE NOT NEARLY AS PISSED ABOUT
LOA 93 AS WE ARE THE NIC. Hope you bought that comforatble rocker I told you to buy 2 years ago.
Even if some of the retirements are F/Os there will be far more Capt. retirements, especially off
of the international widebody side. Don't forget, a little movement goes a long way here.


NICDOA
NPJB

Got another one. Your bottom guys MOST LIKELY won't be furloughed, there has been a big pull down
in AC and seat miles. How tough is your resolve when they realize that they are looking at 20 years
in the right seat absent a deal?? Just asking??

 

[Pi brat]

Agreed. However, USAPA doesn't give two sh**s about "safety". That stupid, pointless survey was just another thinly veiled attempt somehow tie "safety" to combining seniority lists. Every single Westie that took that survey knew full well what the real intent was. I'm sure the respectable professional that was charged with reading all the thousands of West comments was really impressed with USAPA. I'm sure he even felt used by the time this was over. USAPA cannot be trusted by anyone, to tell the truth about anything. Bravo. Great "labor union".

Another pointless, useless waste of time and money. As always, the USAPA version of the truth collapses under the slightest light of reality. The airline is #1 is safety...whatever that means, is pulling in record profits from the "failed business plan" and is at the top of all other performance metrics. Every time I think USAPA can't be a bigger embarrassment to the profession, they reach new ground. Cleary/USAPA is a profoundly negative entity...they seem to really WISH the airline was holding on by a thread. They WANT failure. Misery loves company I guess. Unfortunately for them, no one is biting.

Profits are a good thing morons!!! Remember last time you DIDN'T have a profitable airline? 1879 of you hit the street...350 were dumb enough to return. The only road to getting off LOA93 is paved with the ashes and bones of the failed experiment called USAPA. A handful of megalomaniacs and liars have cost your pilot group more money than any other outside source ever could have. USAPA was voted in by only a 3% margin. There is no way in hell they'd win an election today. They know that. The pressure is getting to them which would explain the East on East fist fights at the union office and Clearys disjointed rants. The curtain is closing...not soon enough.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!! First of all, you are supposedly not a US pilot, so how did you even see it? Second, they survey was a chance for each individual to answer how they felt the company's safety culture was. Some positives came out of it, some negative, but leave it to a westie to turn it into something else.

 

[Pi brat]

Everything USAPA does is about seniority. That's why they had a DFR shoved up their tailpipes in record time and will get it again when the time is "ripe."

You got that backwards, it's the west that makes EVERYTHING about seniority. The refuse to join the east with anything, "until we get our way on the Nic!" It's one of the things that makes me sick about you guys.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Got a prediction for you pal. This company has low costs. Making money. Much better shape than others
in a cirsis. This company isn't going anywhere. As long as we are turning a profit nothing of substance
HAS to happen one way or another. Is the sky falling. NO....now my point. In another 2 years we loose
200-250 and it may not take that long if guys with lots of sick time hit the road. My prediction.....when
we start moving up 200+ per year and have new hire classes every month....YOU ON THE WEST WILL COME UNGLUED.

Fact: 40%+ OF YOUR RETIREMENTS COME OUT OF THE RIGHT SEAT.

.....when
we start moving up 200+ per year and have new hire classes every month....

Those newhires won't have a stomach for LOA93. USAPA won by a 3% margin last time. Repeat that vote with 200 newhires who are going to be presented with the choice of LOA93 or Nic + a contract, guess which way they will vote. Guess. . .

You rag us about. LOA 93. News flash for you....WE ARE NOT NEARLY AS PISSED ABOUT
LOA 93 AS WE ARE THE NIC.

Sure. Right. We on the West are happy to sit and watch because the truth is that most of you are dying under LOA 93.

Even if some of the retirements are F/Os there will be far more Capt. retirements, especially off
of the international widebody side.

60/40, if that.

Don't forget, a little movement goes a long way here.

Exactly. There goes the 3% margin if it already hasn't been blown away. An election is coming in the near future and there's nothing the Angry F/Os can do to stop it. 50% +1.

Got another one. Your bottom guys MOST LIKELY won't be furloughed, there has been a big pull down
in AC and seat miles. How tough is your resolve when they realize that they are looking at 20 years
in the right seat absent a deal?? Just asking??

A third of all CAPTAIN retirements at Airways come from the West. We'll be fine.

Meanwhile, you're stuck on LOA 93.

Do you see why you're f#cked?

 

[Pi brat]

Hey metroyet. You have said you are not a US pilot. Be a bid boy/girl and tell us what your connection is to this company. I dare ya, and be honest.