US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Barrister]

Wrong again, as usual. Read what I said. Slowly this time. It might help with comprehension. Did I not say that he would consider LOS anywhere between 1% and 99%? Notice the word CONSIDER. The arbitrator can do what he feels is right. Policy counts, but is not the end of the road. Mediation also does follow policy. So before arbitration he tries to get the sides closer to each other within the confines of the policy, in order to avoid arbitration. If both sides have negotiated in good faith he will try his best to close the gap once it reaches the arbitration phase. If one side is completely unreasonable and over reaching, he can abandon it all and do what he thinks is right, as long as it doesn't violate the original policy. There is no responsibility whatsoever to "split the baby," giving each side half of what they wanted. It doesn't work that way.

Have you ever been part of mediation/binding arbitration? I mean actually in the room as one of the parties? I have, outside of aviation. It works exactly the same way. And I assure you it is legally binding.


I can't predict the outcome of that merger without knowing more details. Each merger turns on it's on circumstances. It will be interesting to read the arbitrator's decision and reasoning, assuming it gets that far. My guess is that SW might throw enough money at it to buy labor peace and avoid the SLI problems all together. I'll bet an Airtran captain, flying as a SW f/o at captain rates isn't going to complain much about having one less stripe. But to answer your question, a person in the top 3% should stay somewhere around the top 3% after the merger, regardless of years. Especially when both carriers fleets are similar narrowbody. It makes it easier since you don't have to adjust for widebody career expectations.

OK so now we are gonna throw a percentage variation in there. You sir are a piece of work!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[doh nogo]

OK, delusions say you. That is our delusions. You don't even work here. Get lost !

No. He can stay. Along with 767jetz and BoeingBoy. I invited them. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[767jetz]

OK so now we are gonna throw a percentage variation in there. You sir are a piece of work!

NICDOA
NPJB

Actually you're the piece of work. You can't understand a simple concept. You have to obsess over every word and redirect attention whenever you can. I'm not throwing a "percentage variation" as you put it. My point is that the arbitrator can use LOS in the UA/CO SLI to any extent he wants. No one knows what that will be. Clear enough?

 

[Boeing Driver]

Hey Toots ! Bid results are out...How is your CLT bid ?

Don't be so demeaning.....That is "Sweet Toots"....

 

[flypg]

No. He can stay. Along with 767jetz and BoeingBoy. I invited them. Didn't you get the memo?

You are right. He can stay. Just for the entertainment value, even then, not so good. BB ? he can stay too...only after he is done with the yard work though. Jetz ? sorry, I am not a psychiatrist...

 

[luvthe9]

Some good stuff coming East this week. Stand by! B)

 

[nic4us]

*******************************8

Kirby has also been crystal clear that the list can't be ratified.
there is your problem.

An untested hypothesis. But, lets say it is correct. Is that my problem?

Hardly my problem anymore than most of the other players involved.

Sure I would like a a new contract and a raise, well mostly the raise, our contract is pretty decent. However, I would rather stay on contract 2004 than allow usapa to get what they are seeking. So, while it is my problem, (i.e. I do not get a raise) it is better than the alternative usapa seeks.

Now, I am sure the east would argue that LOA93 is better than a Nic inclusive contract. Well, for at least the top 1200 east pilots that is pure BS. Think about it, one day you are say number 1000/2800 (35%) among pilots at a company about to go out of bussiness. Bada Boom, Bada Bing, and you are now number 1250/4600 (26%) among pilots at a company with money in the bank. Your only problem is that you are stuck on those bankruptcy wages and work rules, while those junior to you try and weasel out of binding arbitration. That sucks!! You lose tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, sounds like you have a problem.

Now, usapa has a problem. Kirby has also said that he thinks usapa is incapable of getting a contract, and he is right. That is usapa's problem, no DOH contract, because there is nobody to negotiate with. So, in order to keep the masses happy, usapa has to go on wild goose hunts of pay snapbacks, pension investigations, and info picketing.

Now, the company, they really have a problem. So much so they had to file a lawsuit. On one side they have a hostile union, filing disingenuous grievences, seeking to force them to renege on contractual obligations, threatening work stopages, and just generaly showing a complete disregard for any sort of bussiness ethic, singulary focused on renegeing on binding arbitration. On the other side they have have the West pilots who are sitting on a lawsuit that would drain the corporate treasury if they renege on their contract with the West in the manner usapa seeks.

If Kirby is right, and the Nic can't be ratified, well then, I guess I have a problem.

 

[luvthe9]

An untested hypothesis. But, lets say it is correct. Is that my problem?

Hardly my problem anymore than most of the other players involved.

Sure I would like a a new contract and a raise, well mostly the raise, our contract is pretty decent. However, I would rather stay on contract 2004 than allow usapa to get what they are seeking. So, while it is my problem, (i.e. I do not get a raise) it is better than the alternative usapa seeks.

Now, I am sure the east would argue that LOA93 is better than a Nic inclusive contract. Well, for at least the top 1200 east pilots that is pure BS. Think about it, one day you are say number 1000/2800 (35%) among pilots at a company about to go out of bussiness. Bada Boom, Bada Bing, and you are now number 1250/4600 (26%) among pilots at a company with money in the bank. Your only problem is that you are stuck on those bankruptcy wages and work rules, while those junior to you try and weasel out of binding arbitration. That sucks!! You lose tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, sounds like you have a problem.

Now, usapa has a problem. Kirby has also said that he thinks usapa is incapable of getting a contract, and he is right. That is usapa's problem, no DOH contract, because there is nobody to negotiate with. So, in order to keep the masses happy, usapa has to go on wild goose hunts of pay snapbacks, pension investigations, and info picketing.

Now, the company, they really have a problem. So much so they had to file a lawsuit. On one side they have a hostile union, filing disingenuous grievences, seeking to force them to renege on contractual obligations, threatening work stopages, and just generaly showing a complete disregard for any sort of bussiness ethic, singulary focused on renegeing on binding arbitration. On the other side they have have the West pilots who are sitting on a lawsuit that would drain the corporate treasury if they renege on their contract with the West in the manner usapa seeks.

If Kirby is right, and the Nic can't be ratified, well then, I guess I have a problem.

I like the fantasy part where the company gets the corporate treasury drained! But it is not from the West pilots, it is from Kasher delivering the LOA win! And you are probably right after that. You won't be getting a contract, for a long time.

 

[prechilill]

Hey Toots ! Bid results are out...How is your CLT bid ?

Heading to PHL- more lines to choose from and even though the town is yuckier I like the idea of TLV x 3. Thank God this thing the wheels are coming off USAPA...

 

[Black Swan]

Heading to PHL- more lines to choose from and even though the town is yuckier I like the idea of TLV x 3. Thank God this thing the wheels are coming off USAPA...

Bring your boots. There is a lot of snow on the ground, and on the 190, you will be doing a lot of walkarounds.......

 

[sumadarson]

A thank you to the brave pilots that founded USAPA. They did not promise you a rose garden.

Message to alpa, nice try.


USAPA promises

 

[prechilill]

Bring your boots. There is a lot of snow on the ground, and on the 190, you will be doing a lot of walkarounds.......

I thought the 190 had jetways in PHL? Isn't Diorio on that airplane? I know a lot of junior first officers fly that little thing as captain- that doesn't interest me much. Your pay is really low on the east too! No, I've got my heart set on that big bus.

 

[mikey60]

You moron! I said I was in a pit tossing bags... in JFK. We were either loading containers in the bag room, or in the pit. That's what we called it... a pit. You really are dense. And btw, it was the summer of '89 as a temporary part timer. 3 whole months. You still losing sleep over this? I guess the thumb sucking didn't help.

Oh I see so when I go to work in the pit, it gets its name from all the females in the pilot group...Yea now I understand how you think. Your so full of it you eyes are brown.

 

[mikey60]

Not that I agree that UA has the power to unilaterally change anything in ALPA, since changes like that must be agree to by a majority, but it I'm amazed that you don't see the hypocrisy in your statement above. Aren't you the ones who have been claiming all along that majority rules? You can force onto the west whatever suits the east pilots in a particular scenario. In 2000 you wanted to claim your "rightful" position as 747 captains, but Heaven forbid a west pilot flies a 330!

Keep liviing in that dream world of yours. USAPA's days are numbered. Mark my words, the implosion is coming and your DOH dreams will have gone the way of paper bids, the 727, and a regulated airline industry.

How do you know what we wanted in 2000? Remember you were throwing bags in PIT. I bet your still doing it in JFK.

 

[mikey60]

I read it right here and it's correct. PIT and PHL are in the same state. The most western and eastern hubs of the old USAir.

Yes you were correct but remember this your hubs western, eastern, nothern and southern are now in the same city. and getting smaller by the day hahahahaha.