US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

Sure Southwest gambled big and they won big up through the 2008 oil spike. Then they lost big when oil prices dropped well below their hedged position, though not nearly as big as they won over roughly two decades of hedging. When you have lots of cash to play the hedging market and can do so without risking the airline if you end up paying for bad hedges, then it is certainly a good strategy.

When cash is tight and failures mean the liquidation of the corporate entity when hedges go wrong, it is a very different decision. Southwest leased multiple AC that they previously owned outright to cover the cash deficit caused by the oil plummet. US is not in the same cash-rich position and the BOD is smart enough to weigh the odds and make the decision. It is their money they are choosing to risk or not risk after all. Why not focus on what you can control rather than lobbing flaming arrows at an issue you clearly don't have all the facts on? What pilots can control is dropping the section 22 challenges, accept the NIC and move towards a JCBA.USAPA is the epitome of ineptness and failure so why don’t you focus your contempt on that group of despots instead?

......fuel hedging to USAPA.......

 

[aquagreen73s]

Sorry Jetz you got it wrong again. Prater told us that the ALPA merger policy IS NOT APPLICABLE WHEN IT GOES TO ARBITRATION. If you doubt me just ask others on this board about it. It's those little details you miss that damage your credibility....as well as your motivations!

And you keep missing the part about 2 different carriers merging. Can't wait to see what happens with SW/AT or how about JB and
UAL. Watcha gonna do with all those 4-5- year captains....won't they go agead of your 15 year co-pilots.

NICDOA

Please explain to me JETZ, NIC, clear NUTCASE 320 why or why not you would place the number one guy at Airtran number 2 on the combined SW list even though they are seperated by 20-25 years. Your ball!!

That's not what Prater said! Show us where he said ALPA merger policy isn't applicable? You can't, and you're lying. The first thing George Nicolau talks about in his opinion is ALPA merger policy. I've attached pages 1-3 of the Nicolau not for your edification, but to show others the boldness the Angry F/O club has when it comes to outright lying, conjuring up facts and misrepresenting anything and everything that does not comport with how the Angry F/Os think.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Are you sure he wasn't lying to you? He was trying to offline jumpseat.

It's easy to tell when someone is lying.

Ask the Addington jury.

 

[luvthe9]

It's easy to tell when someone is lying.

Ask the Addington jury.

Ask the Addington Jury? Nobody can, they, were erased!

 

[nic4us]

Prater told us that the ALPA merger policy IS NOT APPLICABLE WHEN IT GOES TO ARBITRATION. If you doubt me just ask others on this board about it.

Please explain to me JETZ, NIC, clear NUTCASE 320 why or why not you would place the number one guy at Airtran number 2 on the combined SW list even though they are seperated by 20-25 years. Your ball!!

First off, Prater was wrong. Wrong about what the arbitrator could and could not do. Wrong to seek "mutual solutions" after the fact, for the first time ever in an ALPA seniority arbitration, and against the executive boards direction. Wrong to violate ALPA's DFR to the West pilots, because his east buddy was Sec/Tres. I do not doubt you, I saw the video. Prater was incapable of his job and deserved to be replace, and he was.

Second, Nicolau relied on and followed ALPA merger policy. That is why it is bullet proof. Do you think the little lawyer is the first scumbag counselor to try to delay implementation of an arbitrated award for his client? News flash, the answere is no. The east MEC immediately filed a lawsuit to block the Nic, that would have delayed things for a while, but was a complete loser suit, because the Nic follows ALPA merger policy. Seeham is just running with a different tactic, also a loser. (both Seham and the tactic). Because, that same ALPA merger policy that Nicolau followed is mandated in the TA, a tripartite contract that gets the company involved. Renege on the contracts, get sued, waste money, lose "unquestionably ripe hybrid-DFR" is what the company sees.

Finally, the Airtran/SW merger. Each case turns on its own merit. If the circumastance dictate, the #1 AT pilot would end up #2. I would not be surprised if they never make it to arbitration, (because for example the #1 AT pilot, who probably has much more LOS than you give credit, and the entire AT pilot group, are likely much more open to a negotiated settlement because of what SW has to offer). If the SW pilots make a reasonable offer, the AT pilots will accept it for the advancements in pay. However, if the SW pilots say, screw them, we have a majority and can force whatever we want, then the SWA pilots will learn a valuable lesson of what binding arbitration means.

 

[No Land Green]

Because, that same ALPA merger policy that Nicolau followed is mandated in the TA, a tripartite contract that gets the company involved. Renege on the contracts, get sued, waste money, lose "unquestionably ripe hybrid-DFR" is what the company sees.

If this is true, why hasn't Parker/Kirby come out and publicly state that the Nic List is the list and that is the only list that will be used?

 

[Barrister]

That's not what Prater said! Show us where he said ALPA merger policy isn't applicable? You can't, and you're lying. The first thing George Nicolau talks about in his opinion is ALPA merger policy. I've attached pages 1-3 of the Nicolau not for your edification, but to show others the boldness the Angry F/O club has when it comes to outright lying, conjuring up facts and misrepresenting anything and everything that does not comport with how the Angry F/Os think.
[/quote

Did your read it yourself. He was merely stating the posture of the case. Believe me someone will give you the relevant
cite. I certainly didn't dream it up.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Metroyet]

If this is true, why hasn't Parker/Kirby come out and publicly state that the Nic List is the list and that is the only list that will be used?

They did. Under oath.

 

[No Land Green]

.I've attached pages 1-3 of the Nicolau not for your edification, but to show others the boldness the Angry F/O club has when it comes to outright lying, conjuring up facts and misrepresenting anything and everything that does not comport with how the Angry F/Os think.

I find this entertaining once again, "Angry F/Os"............ALPA thought it was just the East FO's too, that's why they are no longer on the property.........

 

[767jetz]

Excuse me sir you asked the wrong question and got the wrong answer: predictable.
You should have asked: After the lists are combined how would you feel if the guy
at CO hired 5 years after you got the Capt seat and you retired in the right seat. Same answer:
I doubt it. Like what I see in the mirror just fine.

NICDOA
NPJB

Typical east response. Always predicting what others would say, and putting words into their mouths. Anything to justify your behavior. And always assuming others would act with the same disregard for integrity as you.

Here's an answer for you... if that's what comes from arbitration (and in my case it very well might) then so be it. I'm prepared to live with it, move forward, and never look back. And I'm the same seniority range as the guy who aquagreen spoke of, with no military pension.

You guys think everyone is cut from the same cloth as you. You couldn't be more wrong. I personally would benefit enormously from a DOH integration with CO. Guess what... I don't want it. It's not fair to them, just like it's not fair to the west. And I've made my thoughts well known in no uncertain terms to my LEC.

 

[No Land Green]

They did. Under oath.

Then why the DJ? Why would the Company waste time and money if they already stated the Nic List is the only List they can use? Why hasn't the NMB Mediator also stated this with the NAC?

 

[aquagreen73s]

Then why the DJ? Why would the Company waste time and money if they already stated the Nic List is the only List they can use? Why hasn't the NMB Mediator also stated this with the NAC?

Because Komrade Kleary has threatened the company with work stoppages. What's more, the idiot put it in writing ; more than once. Read the company's complaint - it' all in there. Komrade Kleary in effect has guaranteed that the company has a ripe claim and therefore it's destined to grind along in a federal court that is overloaded with higher priority cases.

Enjoy LOA93.

 

[No Land Green]

Typical east response. Always predicting what others would say, and putting words into their mouths. Anything to justify your behavior.

......"the majority of east pilots"........."SWA fuel hedging"..............LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nic4us]

If this is true, why hasn't Parker/Kirby come out and publicly state that the Nic List is the list and that is the only list that will be used?

Both Parker and Kirby have stated numerous times that the company has "accepted the List".

Further, under oath in court, company representation testified that they had accepted the Nic, and had not entertained any ideas of accepting usapa's DOH list, which usapa had indeed already presented at the negotiating table. That got them out of Addington.

Also, Parker has said numerous times that the company has to remain neutral.

Their actions speak louder than their words. The company's request for declaratory judgement is not about delaying a joint contract, as the idiots at usapa keeps spouting off, it is about keeping the company out of the litigation. By filing, they have admitted to the court that they believe they have a legal responsibility to adhere to their contract in the form of the TA.

 

[No Land Green]

Because Komrade Kleary has threatened the company with work stoppages. What's more, the idiot put it in writing ; more than once. Read the company's complaint - it' all in there. Komrade Kleary in effect has guaranteed that the company has a ripe claim and therefore it's destined to grind along in a federal court that is overloaded with higher priority cases.

Enjoy LOA93.

Well, it just doesn't make sense on the Company's part. So at the end of the day, the Company doesn't know what list it has to use or accept. After all, the entire contract can be amended, starting with page 1, yeah even crew meals.