US Pilots Labor Discussion

[aquagreen73s]

As for UA's house full of problems, I never claimed that UA has no problems. Far from it. We lost our pensions just like you. We went through bankruptcy just like you. We are still operating on a bankruptcy contract agreed to with the gun of liquidation pointed at our heads, just like you. We've had crappy management for years, just like you. I was the first to jump for joy when Tilton left and Smisek took over.

What we don't have is infighting. We don't blame the rest of the world for our problems. We don't try to shut people up who don't agree with us. Our internal debates are often diverse, heated, and emotional exchanges, but in the end we pull on the same end of the rope and take responsibility for our actions. All things lacking from the east.

Believe me, we are cleaning up our own merger, and you can reserve judgment until you see the final product later this year. If we screw it up and it results in a civil war, then I will be the first to admit it. But from what I am seeing it proceeding very methodically and patiently. And a vast majority of UA/CO pilots will be satisfied with the results and look to the future. Now if you would just clean up the mess you created, my friends on the west, and the majority of east pilots who are sick of USAPA and their lies and broken promises, can move forward with what time they have left in this career.

Excellent post Jetz. I fly LAX-PHX a lot and get a fair share of your 757 pilots coming in from OGG and HNL on the jumpseat. I have yet to meet one UAL pilot who uses the word "deserve" in any sentence regarding the merger with CAL. Not one. The last jumpseater was 57 years old, retired Air Force and had his pick of companies back in '97. No one can blame him for going to UAL then, but it's been mostly disappointing. I asked him point blank how he feels about CAL pilots flying left seat hired five years after him, and he answered as one would expect from a retired Colonel - that's the way it is.

Ten years ago there was much envy throughout the pilot ranks for what UAL pilots had. Arguably, you guys have had it the worst since 9/11, but the way you're handling the merger with CAL is pure class. What's undeniable is that it comes down to each individual pilot to decide how they are going to handle the situation and what they are going to do about it. Same circumstances as AAA, but handled very differently. When UAL finishes its merger, we'll have the perfect comparison against which to evaluate how the East handled their merger. That's why the East is so inflamed by your presence on these boards. You make them look in the mirror and they hate what they see. That's good. It means there's hope.

 

[No Land Green]

That's why the East is so inflamed by your presence on these boards. You make them look in the mirror and they hate what they see. That's good. It means there's hope.

I like 767Jetz "presence on these boards". It's the comedy he provides. NO "hate" here when I "look in the mirror" LMAO!!!!

There is no "hope" for these two pilot groups.......

 

[Black Swan]

In my opinion the two greatest factors in the price of oil in the US are the strength or weakness of the US Dollar against all other currencies and the actions of speculators in the futures markets. The dollar has become weaker and weaker as the world recognizes that the US economy cannot be stable with the trillions of dollars in budget deficits and the total debt in trillions the US owes to other nations. If the newly elected house can provide fiscal leadership to reverse these problems, the dollar may gain in strength in 2011. If Obama and Reid continue to call for deficit spending and borrowing trillions more, then the dollar will get weaker. Do you expect US management/BOD to be able to accurately predict the outcome of DC politics? Likewise, should they be able to predict oil futures markets with such precision as to assure that US always has a cost advantage when it comes to fuel? Predicting the future is subject to failure which puts hedging in the high risk category either way you go.

BTW – has there been any statements to prove that Scott Kirby is making all of the hedging decisions or are you just speaking out of ignorance?

You and your management must get along just fine. Bottom line- if Southwest is doing it, do it. It is that simple. They have an entire department working the fuel hedges, so they obviously are way ahead of Kirby and Parker. History is totally backing their hedging.

 

[crazystnic]

Interesting how you consider someone voicing an opinion or supporting those who disagree with you, "causing trouble." I know you would rather live in a world where everyone agrees with you (as evidenced by your groups attempt to force your will on the west), but that's just not how things work. I guess the west and their lawyers are causing trouble for you, in much the same way the police cause trouble for thieves.

As for UA's house full of problems, I never claimed that UA has no problems. Far from it. We lost our pensions just like you. We went through bankruptcy just like you. We are still operating on a bankruptcy contract agreed to with the gun of liquidation pointed at our heads, just like you. We've had crappy management for years, just like you. I was the first to jump for joy when Tilton left and Smisek took over.

What we don't have is infighting. We don't blame the rest of the world for our problems. We don't try to shut people up who don't agree with us. Our internal debates are often diverse, heated, and emotional exchanges, but in the end we pull on the same end of the rope and take responsibility for our actions. All things lacking from the east.

The RJ issue in hindsight was a mistake in the first place when the 50 seaters first showed up. Thank Delta for that one. We had the opportunity to capture that flying, but those elected and in control decide they wanted nothing to do with those small toy airplanes. They were wrong. We removed them in the next election. 70 seaters were agreed to during BK. Thankfully there is a cap. UA can not fly unlimited 70 seaters. I guarantee you that the current number will not increase. Most likely our new contract will provide for a phasing out of those planes, unless they are flown by our pilots. There will also be limits on Air Lingus type deals where UA will need to have metal in the market gain revenue from the venture. (ie: 50% of the flights for 50% of the revenue.) Scope is a huge issue for both the CO and UA pilots. Where you got the idea that UA is soft on scope is beyond me. If anything the door was opened by the senior guys you seem to regard highly, when they were in control, and the BK gun was at our heads. They were the soft one oout of lack of foresight. They wanted to smooth the road until their retirement. (Here's a little factoid about those senior guys. As good as Dubinsky was, he and the senior guys negotiated an extra pay bump for the themselves on the 747 during Contract 2000, above and beyond the gains everyone else got.) The younger generation of UA pilots are in no mood for concessions. We have too many years left to play that game.

Yes the new ALPA merger policy has LOS as one of the criteria for consideration, just like career expectation, no windfalls at the expense of the other side, etc etc. There is no DOH, and LOS is a non specific criteria to be considered. The Arbitrator may take it into account by 1% or 99%. No one knows. The key to success in arbitration is to reach for as much as possible without appearing to over reach. Once you over reach arbitrators generally respond unfavorably. UA's merger committee knows this well and has no intention of over reaching at the negotiating table. Again just a guess, but we will probably see a list configured by relative position in category and class, with some small adjustments to the very top and very bottom of the list for LOS. Furloughs will probably go behind active employees on the PID, there will be no bump and flush, and the biggest adjustment of all will come from the disparity of widebodies. It will probably be in the form of a seniority adjustment like Nicolau did, instead of a fence. But a small short fence may be included. This is all from my crystal ball and reading of the tea leaves. We'll see how close I am when it happens.

You guys got burned by over reaching and not coming up with any better ideas than DOH. I told you years ago that if you had taken NIC and made some adjustments for LOS and actual attrition from the left seat, dropped your demand to put furloughs ahead of active pilots on the PID, while there was still someone to represent the west, you would have had huge pay raises and better quality of life for years by now. What you really should have done was come up with ideas before arbitration. The path of destruction you chose since then is of your own doing. And you are reaping the fruit of what you've sewn now, with endless lawsuits by the company, the west, RICO suits, fist fights among yourselves, anger and attacks on anyone who dares challenge your way of thinking, LOA93 indefinitely, and a miserable existence. You've shown your true colors and no one will want to have anything to do with USAirways. Shine the apple all you want, there won't be any buyers outside of a bankruptcy deal, either for you or the acquiring airline.

Believe me, we are cleaning up our own merger, and you can reserve judgment until you see the final product later this year. If we screw it up and it results in a civil war, then I will be the first to admit it. But from what I am seeing it proceeding very methodically and patiently. And a vast majority of UA/CO pilots will be satisfied with the results and look to the future. Now if you would just clean up the mess you created, my friends on the west, and the majority of east pilots who are sick of USAPA and their lies and broken promises, can move forward with what time they have left in this career.

******************************************************8
revisionist history is pretty good isn't it... ALPA knows they screwed the pooch and they will never let dues money go out the door again... Also managements saw what happened with this disaster and will do the same... Pretty easy to monday morning quater back eh Jetz
Give us all a break ..... It's not the big bad east fighting for this..

 

[crazystnic]

You and your management must get along just fine. Bottom line- if Southwest is doing it, do it. It is that simple. They have an entire department working the fuel hedges, so they obviously are way ahead of Kirby and Parker. History is totally backing their hedging.

******************************
Yeah Parker and Kirby were doing it on the wrong side of the hedge,,, locking in when oil was at 125 and heading North.... fools..

bottom line is you always hedge a percentage to lock in some of the costs ....

this BS about a natural hedge is just that BS.

there are too many unknowns.
the dollar, political unrest, economy...etc

 

[pitchlow]

I’ll try to respond to the multitude of posts that appeared after I "suggested" that fuel hedging wasn’t Kirby’s decision to make alone. In fact, I believe the fuel department falls under the CFO rather than Kirby/Isom, but I can’t state that as an absolute fact. The point was that the shareholders of US have determined that purchasing fuel and engaging in risky hedging schemes is far too great a decision for one person to bear the burden of alone. This is not unusual as even Doug has limits to the spending authority and risk he can put the company in without BOD approval. It has nothing to do with the competency of the management team, it has to do with the fiduciary responsibility the BOD has to the shareholders in a publically traded company. In the final analysis, any decision that could have such an impact as to risk bankruptcy or liquidation belongs at the BOD level for the protection of the stockholders money and interests. Blaming Kirby for that decision just shows a complete ignorance of the inner workings of the management processes and the policies that legally govern their actions.

My bias is towards the facts and the truth rather than baseless feelings and emotions. It doesn’t matter if I own stock or don’t as that doesn’t change the fact of how the hedging decisions are made. I never called Parker & Kirby the dream team, but the facts indicate that they have been very successful at managing a major airline in what may have been the most tumultuous decade in all of aviation history. That was a decade that included September 11th, the filing of bankruptcy of almost every major airline in the USA, the merger of six of the largest major airlines in the US, fuel spikes to $140+/bb, the worst economic downturn in more than half a century, and a myriad of other challenges associated with having too much industry capacity leading to unsupportable ticket prices that do not cover the operating costs for virtually every carrier – including WN. For most of the decade WN’s profitability was tied to fuel hedging gains rather than operational efficiencies. So, unless you are biased against the truth it is undeniable that Doug and team have successfully managed and proven their mettle in one of the most volatile industries to be found anywhere. And to say that Doug is only polishing up the exterior so that he can make a quick money grab and run is to reject the fact that Doug has been in the CEO chair longer than every other CEO currently serving at a major carrier (far longer in fact). So, if I have the facts wrong, please feel free to make the correction and I will offer my apology. Otherwise you are not traversing in the land of truth and facts and I really can’t help you if you cannot accept the truth.

Employees at US are not subsidizing “management incompetence”. Every employee is working for the wages that were agreed to. Unionized employees are receiving the wages that were negotiated by their CBA and ratified by the membership. Non-contract employees also receive whatever they agreed to be paid for the work they perform. There are only two groups that haven’t reached a new CBA since the merger – the pilots and the FAs. The pilots have been led off-track by an unscrupulous lawyer who earns more money by ensuring that the pilots do not reach a contract than actually getting them to a JCBA. If USAPA were to offer $eham a $4M bonus for achieving a JCBA in 2011, I’ll bet the legal challenges to fighting the NIC award would suddenly change course in favor of just getting the best contract we can rather than worrying about the fallacious harm that is supposed to come the east pilots because of a ratio integration process. And the FAs spent way too much time waiting out $eham, Bradford, & Cleary rather than just negotiating their own JCBA. Now they seem to be fighting each other over the contract rather than presenting a unified set of negotiating points to get this done. There is plenty of inteptitude to blame for the pilots and FAs not having a contract, but that is the fault of ALPA, USAPA, and the AFA, not management.

From fuel to labor contracts, then Doug's skill and on to NIC. South West's fuel cost were lowered by luck according to some. I would rather attribute this to talent commitment and stones. 3.5 Billion in fuel savings. Kirby's sentiment regarding fuel hedging
is telling. You can rationalize our managements performance anyway you wish but they win when they do nothing. It's by design..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703675904576063812573397504.html?mg=com-wsj

 

[No Land Green]

The last jumpseater was 57 years old, retired Air Force and had his pick of companies back in '97. No one can blame him for going to UAL then, but it's been mostly disappointing. I asked him point blank how he feels about CAL pilots flying left seat hired five years after him, and he answered as one would expect from a retired Colonel - that's the way it is.

How do we know he wasn't lying to you? Just using the logic that some posters use here. Besides, if he did his 20 years in the Military, he has cheap medical and is drawing a nice Military Retirement check right now........LOA93+PBGC+Military Retirement= nice tidy sum of $$

 

[Metroyet]

The risk is, you get caught with your pants down when you fail to long term plan. Kirby has just laid the cornerstone to a failed 2011 with the lack of fuel hedges.

You and the USAPA idiots can't even negotiate a CREW MEAL and now you're competent commodities strategist?

Why do Easties think that just because you can fly an ILS, you're an expert at everything else...no matter how complicated and unrelated to flying?

I get so much entertainment here I can't even describe it!

 

[pitchlow]

In my opinion the two greatest factors in the price of oil in the US are the strength or weakness of the US Dollar against all other currencies and the actions of speculators in the futures markets. The dollar has become weaker and weaker as the world recognizes that the US economy cannot be stable with the trillions of dollars in budget deficits and the total debt in trillions the US owes to other nations. If the newly elected house can provide fiscal leadership to reverse these problems, the dollar may gain in strength in 2011. If Obama and Reid continue to call for deficit spending and borrowing trillions more, then the dollar will get weaker. Do you expect US management/BOD to be able to accurately predict the outcome of DC politics? Likewise, should they be able to predict oil futures markets with such precision as to assure that US always has a cost advantage when it comes to fuel? Predicting the future is subject to failure which puts hedging in the high risk category either way you go.

BTW – has there been any statements to prove that Scott Kirby is making all of the hedging decisions or are you just speaking out of ignorance?

Why do you provide cover for these guys? If you were interested in results would you not look to the leader. Instead you make excuses. Process only matters when it produces. Results matter.... It is so painfully obvious that this operation is getting picked clean. There are two plans in play at USAirways. They require little participation on managements part. Pick it clean while you can and sell it if you can. Like I said they won't even spend money on new Departure and Arrival displays. The other day in CLT I had to look away so I did not get vertigo.

 

[Barrister]

Excellent post Jetz. I fly LAX-PHX a lot and get a fair share of your 757 pilots coming in from OGG and HNL on the jumpseat. I have yet to meet one UAL pilot who uses the word "deserve" in any sentence regarding the merger with CAL. Not one. The last jumpseater was 57 years old, retired Air Force and had his pick of companies back in '97. No one can blame him for going to UAL then, but it's been mostly disappointing. I asked him point blank how he feels about CAL pilots flying left seat hired five years after him, and he answered as one would expect from a retired Colonel - that's the way it is.

Ten years ago there was much envy throughout the pilot ranks for what UAL pilots had. Arguably, you guys have had it the worst since 9/11, but the way you're handling the merger with CAL is pure class. What's undeniable is that it comes down to each individual pilot to decide how they are going to handle the situation and what they are going to do about it. Same circumstances as AAA, but handled very differently. When UAL finishes its merger, we'll have the perfect comparison against which to evaluate how the East handled their merger. That's why the East is so inflamed by your presence on these boards. You make them look in the mirror and they hate what they see. That's good. It means there's hope.

Excuse me sir you asked the wrong question and got the wrong answer: predictable.
You should have asked: After the lists are combined how would you feel if the guy
at CO hired 5 years after you got the Capt seat and you retired in the right seat. Same answer:
I doubt it. Like what I see in the mirror just fine.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[CallawayGolf]

From fuel to labor contracts, then Doug's skill and on to NIC. South West's fuel cost were lowered by luck according to some. I would rather attribute this to talent commitment and stones. 3.5 Billion in fuel savings. Kirby's sentiment regarding fuel hedging
is telling. You can rationalize our managements performance anyway you wish but they win when they do nothing. It's by design..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703675904576063812573397504.html?mg=com-wsj

Sure Southwest gambled big and they won big up through the 2008 oil spike. Then they lost big when oil prices dropped well below their hedged position, though not nearly as big as they won over roughly two decades of hedging. When you have lots of cash to play the hedging market and can do so without risking the airline if you end up paying for bad hedges, then it is certainly a good strategy.

When cash is tight and failures mean the liquidation of the corporate entity when hedges go wrong, it is a very different decision. Southwest leased multiple AC that they previously owned outright to cover the cash deficit caused by the oil plummet. US is not in the same cash-rich position and the BOD is smart enough to weigh the odds and make the decision. It is their money they are choosing to risk or not risk after all. Why not focus on what you can control rather than lobbing flaming arrows at an issue you clearly don't have all the facts on? What pilots can control is dropping the section 22 challenges, accept the NIC and move towards a JCBA.USAPA is the epitome of ineptness and failure so why don’t you focus your contempt on that group of despots instead?

 

[Barrister]

Interesting how you consider someone voicing an opinion or supporting those who disagree with you, "causing trouble." I know you would rather live in a world where everyone agrees with you (as evidenced by your groups attempt to force your will on the west), but that's just not how things work. I guess the west and their lawyers are causing trouble for you, in much the same way the police cause trouble for thieves.

As for UA's house full of problems, I never claimed that UA has no problems. Far from it. We lost our pensions just like you. We went through bankruptcy just like you. We are still operating on a bankruptcy contract agreed to with the gun of liquidation pointed at our heads, just like you. We've had crappy management for years, just like you. I was the first to jump for joy when Tilton left and Smisek took over.

What we don't have is infighting. We don't blame the rest of the world for our problems. We don't try to shut people up who don't agree with us. Our internal debates are often diverse, heated, and emotional exchanges, but in the end we pull on the same end of the rope and take responsibility for our actions. All things lacking from the east.

The RJ issue in hindsight was a mistake in the first place when the 50 seaters first showed up. Thank Delta for that one. We had the opportunity to capture that flying, but those elected and in control decide they wanted nothing to do with those small toy airplanes. They were wrong. We removed them in the next election. 70 seaters were agreed to during BK. Thankfully there is a cap. UA can not fly unlimited 70 seaters. I guarantee you that the current number will not increase. Most likely our new contract will provide for a phasing out of those planes, unless they are flown by our pilots. There will also be limits on Air Lingus type deals where UA will need to have metal in the market gain revenue from the venture. (ie: 50% of the flights for 50% of the revenue.) Scope is a huge issue for both the CO and UA pilots. Where you got the idea that UA is soft on scope is beyond me. If anything the door was opened by the senior guys you seem to regard highly, when they were in control, and the BK gun was at our heads. They were the soft one oout of lack of foresight. They wanted to smooth the road until their retirement. (Here's a little factoid about those senior guys. As good as Dubinsky was, he and the senior guys negotiated an extra pay bump for the themselves on the 747 during Contract 2000, above and beyond the gains everyone else got.) The younger generation of UA pilots are in no mood for concessions. We have too many years left to play that game.

Yes the new ALPA merger policy has LOS as one of the criteria for consideration, just like career expectation, no windfalls at the expense of the other side, etc etc. There is no DOH, and LOS is a non specific criteria to be considered. The Arbitrator may take it into account by 1% or 99%. No one knows. The key to success in arbitration is to reach for as much as possible without appearing to over reach. Once you over reach arbitrators generally respond unfavorably. UA's merger committee knows this well and has no intention of over reaching at the negotiating table. Again just a guess, but we will probably see a list configured by relative position in category and class, with some small adjustments to the very top and very bottom of the list for LOS. Furloughs will probably go behind active employees on the PID, there will be no bump and flush, and the biggest adjustment of all will come from the disparity of widebodies. It will probably be in the form of a seniority adjustment like Nicolau did, instead of a fence. But a small short fence may be included. This is all from my crystal ball and reading of the tea leaves. We'll see how close I am when it happens.

You guys got burned by over reaching and not coming up with any better ideas than DOH. I told you years ago that if you had taken NIC and made some adjustments for LOS and actual attrition from the left seat, dropped your demand to put furloughs ahead of active pilots on the PID, while there was still someone to represent the west, you would have had huge pay raises and better quality of life for years by now. What you really should have done was come up with ideas before arbitration. The path of destruction you chose since then is of your own doing. And you are reaping the fruit of what you've sewn now, with endless lawsuits by the company, the west, RICO suits, fist fights among yourselves, anger and attacks on anyone who dares challenge your way of thinking, LOA93 indefinitely, and a miserable existence. You've shown your true colors and no one will want to have anything to do with USAirways. Shine the apple all you want, there won't be any buyers outside of a bankruptcy deal, either for you or the acquiring airline.

Believe me, we are cleaning up our own merger, and you can reserve judgment until you see the final product later this year. If we screw it up and it results in a civil war, then I will be the first to admit it. But from what I am seeing it proceeding very methodically and patiently. And a vast majority of UA/CO pilots will be satisfied with the results and look to the future. Now if you would just clean up the mess you created, my friends on the west, and the majority of east pilots who are sick of USAPA and their lies and broken promises, can move forward with what time they have left in this career.

Sorry Jetz you got it wrong again. Prater told us that the ALPA merger policy IS NOT APPLICABLE WHEN IT GOES TO ARBITRATION. If you doubt me just ask others on this board about it. It's those little details you miss that damage your credibility....as well as your motivations!

And you keep missing the part about 2 different carriers merging. Can't wait to see what happens with SW/AT or how about JB and
UAL. Watcha gonna do with all those 4-5- year captains....won't they go agead of your 15 year co-pilots.

NICDOA

Please explain to me JETZ, NIC, clear NUTCASE 320 why or why not you would place the number one guy at Airtran number 2 on the combined SW list even though they are seperated by 20-25 years. Your ball!!

 

[aquagreen73s]

Excuse me sir you asked the wrong question and got the wrong answer: predictable.
You should have asked: After the lists are combined how would you feel if the guy
at CO hired 5 years after you got the Capt seat and you retired in the right seat. Same answer:
I doubt it. Like what I see in the mirror just fine.

NICDOA
NPJB

Oh don't you wish! The context of the question was ratio integration. The Colonel knew darn well the guy hired five years behind him was going to be ratioed in with the junior UAL capts. He anticipates being ratioed right where a junior 757 copilot is on the CAL list.

When the UAL/CAL combined seniority list comes out, it will look a lot like Nicolau. The UAL pilots will handle it with grace. The disparity between UAL and CAL is much worse considering where each of them was ten years ago, and where they are now. AAA always was a crap place to work and was never a viable career. That's why you brought 17 year pilots on furlough to the merger. You made more money than AWA, but a pilot never advanced anywhere on the seniority list. AWA pilots had plenty of advancement which as it turns out, more than compensated for the lack of pay as compared to AAA. No, the UAL pilots are about to put the final underscore on the East's behavior. You know it, and that's why you can your ilk can't stand Jetz.

Enjoy LOA93.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Why do you provide cover for these guys? If you were interested in results would you not look to the leader. Instead you make excuses. Process only matters when it produces. Results matter.... It is so painfully obvious that this operation is getting picked clean. There are two plans in play at USAirways. They require little participation on managements part. Pick it clean while you can and sell it if you can. Like I said they won't even spend money on new Departure and Arrival displays. The other day in CLT I had to look away so I did not get vertigo.

Please show me where I provided cover rather than facts? I show three out of five very profitable years as a matter of public (SEC) records (record profits to boot). I show substantial improvement and industry-leading performance in DOT metrics as part of the public record. I show a 2010 Fiscal Year Income Statement, Balance Sheet and cash position that show a highly competent and focused management team that is running a very good airline as measured by objective, quantifiable standards of measure for public review. What do you have to prove, as a matter of public record, that demonstrates the opposite?

Yes, I’m sure Doug & Scott went down to CLT and looked at the FIDS and said “sure that’s good enough for our customers and employees”. Of course, like you, I don’t have proof that that’s what happened – it’s just this feeling I get when I think about the issue. Then again, it could be that someone has looked at the issue, made a proposal to management to correct the problem, and that proposal is being evaluated based on the needs of the business in relation to the other demands for cash expenditures through a controlled and necessary spending oversight process which is all a part of the established policy for US Airways. Hmm, which one of those views represents the actual events that have transpired over this issue?

 

[No Land Green]

Oh don't you wish! The context of the question was ratio integration. The Colonel knew darn well the guy hired five years behind him was going to be ratioed in with the junior UAL capts. He anticipates being ratioed right where a junior 757 copilot is on the CAL list.

When the UAL/CAL combined seniority list comes out, it will look a lot like Nicolau. The UAL pilots will handle it with grace. The disparity between UAL and CAL is much worse considering where each of them was ten years ago, and where they are now. AAA always was a crap place to work and was never a viable career. That's why you brought 17 year pilots on furlough to the merger. You made more money than AWA, but a pilot never advanced anywhere on the seniority list. AWA pilots had plenty of advancement which as it turns out, more than compensated for the lack of pay as compared to AAA. No, the UAL pilots are about to put the final underscore on the East's behavior. You know it, and that's why you can your ilk can't stand Jetz.

Enjoy LOA93.

Are you sure he wasn't lying to you? He was trying to offline jumpseat.