US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

If and when it comes time for a labor action (becomes ripe , I accept the fact that you may not be able to support the east because of the DOH issue. So be it. All I ask is you don't obstruct our efforts. Don't join us on the picket if that is what your conscience dictates. Just don't picket against us. Fly your trip if you feel compelled, just don't fly my trip.

One day this divide between us too will end. But there is no statute of limitations on the damage to yourself by engaging in strike breaking activity.

What is the statute of limitations on the damage the east pilots have done by filing RICO charges and disregarding binding arbitration? How will the east fix that divide?

What about the obstruction of the east pilots by walking out of joint negotiations after the Nicolau award was announced.

Sure you guys cause the problem but don't want to pay the price of your actions.

 

[traderjake]

One day this divide between us too will end. But there is no statute of limitations on the damage to yourself by engaging in strike breaking activity.

People don't forget when you try to steal their jobs and they have to spend their own time and money to defend what they are legally and ethically entittled to.

Nice attempt at coercing people into supporting your attemped theft.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

People don't forget when you try to steal their jobs and they have to spend their own time and money to defend what they are legally and ethically entittled to.

Exactly right for once. Mr. Seham is doing a great job defending the East Pilots' jobs from the junior, thieving westies. Yes, we will NEVER forget.

 

[Zone5]

Seajay;
I don't think a legal job action is ever a REMOTE possibility. We'll have to cross that bridge if an authorized strike is called when we come to it. I was wondering if you could address the following comment made by one of the east based pilots in the article:

"They can't improve as an airline and they can't improve their market share with this kind of fractured workforce," Brancatelli said. "Five years after the merger, we still see planes painted 'America West.' There seems to be no plan."

Is Pilot Brancatelli aware that there are only two America West paint theme aircraft that fall under the category of "heritage paint scheme"? Is Pilot Brancatelli equally mad about the PSA, Piedmont & Allegheny paint schemes? What about the Nevada & Arizona paint schemes?

I can only imagine the amount of angst that is caused by the NFL themed aircraft (unless of course Pilot Brancatelli is an avid Steelers fan, and they win the Superbowl on Feb. 6th). :blink:

Brancatelli is not a pilot, just another airline "anal-ist". Here is his quote from the article:

"Passengers aren't likely to see any immediate disruption, airline analyst Joe Brancatelli said. The bigger risk is that, with US Airways mired in disunion for so many years, the airline's future is unclear.

"They can't improve as an airline and they can't improve their market share with this kind of fractured workforce," Brancatelli said. "Five years after the merger, we still see planes painted 'America West.' There seems to be no plan.""

His comment about the "legacy" paint jobs, just illustrates his willingness to pontificate about a complex issue without even doing basic research.

seajay

 

[cleardirect]

This is a real question. USAPA has basically given up even pretending to represent the West pilots. They have made it clear they only care about what happens to the East pilots and the West pilots have to just suck it up because majority rules. Given that their union has abandoned them, why on Earth would you expect the West pilots to support their union? Shouldn't it be a two way street?

a little something from a former usapa rep.

It isn’t any great mystery why the PHX reps want to disrupt Cleary and those who support him. It is becoming increasingly clear that the courts are not going to help them stop DOH given USAPA’s handling of the matter thus far. So they are focusing their attack on the people primarily responsible for those efforts so they will cease. By themselves the PHX reps can do little to achieve their goals in this area, however if they are able to cajole the support of at least three east reps then they can have their way. Conveniently for them there are strong political activists with deep rooted disdain for Cleary (and therefore for our goals) who are happy to lend a hand just for the chance to unseat the President or at the very least cripple him politically - all of this with an obtuse disregard for the potentially disastrous consequences it would have for our seniority battle and our fight for a fair contract.

If you are wondering why on earth any east rep would dance with the devil and risk our primary objectives of DOH and an industry standard contract then you are not alone. Suffice it to say that the political opposition as mentioned above has an unusually large amount of influence with some board members and are using them to advance their goal of controlling the agenda of the union despite their inability to do so through open involvement in the process. The PHX reps are understandably more than happy to oblige because what the leadership is doing now has us winning and they desperately want it to stop. Leonidas is certainly enjoying the infighting and would be happy to see us saddled with a known high crime property and the attendant Tort liability.

So the single goal of DOH even effects the decision of real estate in usapa land.

 

[traderjake]

Exactly right for once. Mr. Seham is doing a great job defending the East Pilots' jobs from the junior, thieving westies. Yes, we will NEVER forget.

How can you say something so stupid?

Tell us again what the results of the Shuttle and Delta Northwest arbitrations were?

I'll give you a hint, slotting by status and equipment, basically just like the NIC award.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

How can you say something so stupid?

Tell us again what the results of the Shuttle and Delta Northwest arbitrations were?

I'll give you a hint, slotting by status and equipment, just like ours.

From an old, failed colllective bargaining agent. Thbe ONLY one that has these issues, because it makes up and changes the rules as it goes along.

Get with the program. The Nic is gone. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Black Swan]

This is true. West pilots also know that other airline pilots, especially alpa pilots, know the situation as well. It is clear that usapa is not a real union so solidarity is an absolute joke.

Just rode the van with a Continental capt. He spent a lot of time in Barcelona with our pilots, and knows how bad the Nic is. Even knew roughly the time periods and how bad our guys who were never furloughed were roughed up, going under new hires. Interesting , he had a totally different view on things than Jetzz with regard to their deal. The real problem is how the UAL pilots totally caved on the RJ's in their contract, and now Co. had to grieve and successfully got arbitrator Bloch to prevail. We talked about how their pilot neutral was totally against the Nic abortion. The Continental guys absolutely get it. The realize the Nic is the standard to AVOID.

 

[nic4us]

Get with the program, clown. The Nic is gone. Ain't gonna happen.

Isn't it rich?
Are we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground,
You in mid-air.
Send in the clowns.

Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer,
Losing my timing this late
In my career?
And where are the clowns?
There ought to be clowns.
Well, maybe next year.

You are a riot Oldie, when the Nic is implemented in a joint contract you can sing this verse.


Don't you love farce?
My fault I fear.
I thought that you'd want what I want.
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns.
Don't bother, they're here

 

[767jetz]

Just rode the van with a Continental capt. He spent a lot of time in Barcelona with our pilots, and knows how bad the Nic is. Even knew roughly the time periods and how bad our guys who were never furloughed were roughed up, going under new hires. Interesting , he had a totally different view on things than Jetzz with regard to their deal. The real problem is how the UAL pilots totally caved on the RJ's in their contract, and now Co. had to grieve and successfully got arbitrator Bloch to prevail. We talked about how their pilot neutral was totally against the Nic abortion. The Continental guys absolutely get it. The realize the Nic is the standard to AVOID.

Great! I hope this theoretical CO captain doesn't mind UA pilots going ahead of him in a DOH hire integration, and thousands of UA junior pilots including those on furlough, going ahead of their 737 and Junior 757 captains. Did he also tell you about how CO pilots are pining over our work rules, since theirs are so bad?

This is what's so ridiculous about your hypothetical encounter on the van. Far more CO pilots would lose out in a DOH integration. It is UA who would benefit the most from DOH, yet UA is not and will not pursue a DOH integration. Ironic, huh? Plus UA has a big majority, yet we still have no intention of a DOH cram down just because it suits us better. It's called integrity. I don't expect you to understand.

If this encounter actually happened, I'd bet he was telling you what you want to hear just to placate you. I did the same thing at JFK recently, on line at Starbucks. I just wanted to enjoy my coffee in peace, so I nodded in agreement with a glazed over look in my eye until I could politely say goodbye and be on my way. Nothing ruins a nice early morning coffee than listening to the unsolicited ramblings about senile arbitrators, and the merits of DOH.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The realize the Nic is the standard to AVOID.

That doesn't even make sense. The Nic isn't a standard, it's the decision for one merger only. If you aren't willing to accept the results of binding arbitration don't enter into the process. If you do enter into the process show some integrity and abide by it even if you don't like the result.

 

[doh nogo]

He doesn't bash AAA, just a few crazies around here. There is a difference

Right on the money, prechilill. 767jetz is spot on when he calls their BS. He only plays with the idiots of the lynch mob because they deserve it. And they don't even realize it! No wonder they are so lost in their DOH quest. Can't wait for the "implosion."

 

[cleardirect]

Just rode the van with a Continental capt. He spent a lot of time in Barcelona with our pilots, and knows how bad the Nic is. Even knew roughly the time periods and how bad our guys who were never furloughed were roughed up, going under new hires. Interesting , he had a totally different view on things than Jetzz with regard to their deal. The real problem is how the UAL pilots totally caved on the RJ's in their contract, and now Co. had to grieve and successfully got arbitrator Bloch to prevail. We talked about how their pilot neutral was totally against the Nic abortion. The Continental guys absolutely get it. The realize the Nic is the standard to AVOID.

Really!!! Totaly was against the Nicolau award. Interesting characterization. What color is the sky in your world?

Finally I would like to a reaffirm my opinion that the Chairman Nicolau demonstrated exceptional judgment and wisdom working through many very difficult and challenging issues including the disparate aircraft types, routes, compensation systems, and pilot staffing formulas to mention just a few. It has been a privilege to work together with Chairman Nicolau and Captain Gillen on this Opinion and Award.

Dated: May 1, 2007
Captain James P Brucia
Pilot Neutral

What part of the Nicolau is to be avoided? The part where WB pilots are placed senior to NB pilots? The part where furloughed pilots are placed at the bottom of the list below active pilots? Or the part where the junior active pilot is placed next to the junior active pilot from the other airline?

What part should be avoided?

 

[nic4us]

If and when it comes time for a labor action (becomes ripe , I accept the fact that you may not be able to support the east because of the DOH issue. So be it. All I ask is you don't obstruct our efforts. Don't join us on the picket if that is what your conscience dictates. Just don't picket against us. Fly your trip if you feel compelled, just don't fly my trip.

One day this divide between us too will end. But there is no statute of limitations on the damage to yourself by engaging in strike breaking activity.

You are making the assumption that anyone would be doing any flying.

When the F/As at AWA threatened a CHOAS strike at the end of their last contract negotiations, the company's response was that it would shut down the airline for the duration of any strike.

As far as not obstructing usapa's efforts, you hit the nail on the head when you point out picketing against usapa. The logical course of action for the West would be to not cross usapa's line, not walk usapa's line, but lob tomatoes at it from a distance in the form of press releases and info picketing of our own.

In the end all this hypothetical talk is irrelevant. The solution is not in ratcheting up the pressure. usapa will never get to a strike, and any usapa supporter who thinks that the end game lies there is out to lunch. The solution will be found when cooler heads prevail. The problem is getting those cooler heads into a position to make a difference. If you, me, Cleardirect and Pibrat where given unfettered authority over the situation, we could solve it within a week, and have a joint contract in 90 days.



PS. anybody know the status of Cubfan?

 

[nic4us]

What part should be avoided?

The part where your company aquires USAirways.