US Pilots Labor Discussion

[sumadarson]

PS. It's been fun the last couple of days winding you guys up, while in bed recovering from the flu.

You know what makes me sad, YOU DO!

The Chicago Bears have Jay Cutler, United Airline pilots have 767jetz. Wimp.

Get out of bed walk it off. If you can type you should be able to help around the house.

Tissue?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Tick tock...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

What a bunch of cry babies. Your DOH experiment must really be close to implosion if this is all you've got left in your arsenal. Pathetic, grumpy old men who wish upon a star that everyone else would have as crappy a career so they can feel better about themselves.

Oh, and are you living by those double standards again? What makes you think I care if you, RR, Nos, BS, or any other AFO believe I'm a UA pilot or not? I don't care if you think I "fly rubber dog s**t out of Hong Kong." It doesn't change your misery under LOA 93, the fact that DOH will never happen, the fact that by the end of this year our f/o's will be making as much as your captains, The fact that you are an embarrassment and laughing stock of our profession, and your fate is completely out of your hands in the the hands of the legal system.

You guys are like a bunch of cockroaches who scurry around and can't stand when someone shines a light on you. And I'm all too happy to help my west brothers and sisters shine the spotlight!

PS. It's been fun the last couple of days winding you guys up, while in bed recovering from the flu. You all make such easy targets! Back to the real world of short call tomorrow, so you and your playmates feel free to have the last word. I look forward to it. I'm sure it will be filled with insight, logic, and wisdom. (NOT!)

My work is done with you sir. I made my point. We have a lot of problems here, and are all working under really bad contracts. I will never understand your meddling in all this, and your hatred of all things U. You don't need to poke and prod us on our situation. In the end, the real pilots affected by all this (at U and AWA) may or may not have to make their peace. I will do just that when the time comes. But we don't need or want outside agents adding to the fire.

Good luck in your career, and I hope I am wrong about you being unemployed. But please leave us alone, unless you have some constructive, or at least humorous comments to add. Do as you wish.

Sorry about you being sick, that sucks. Get better, come back her and joust with all of us..just don't make fun of our situation. We have enough on our plates.

RR

 

[crazystnic]

My work is done with you sir. I made my point. We have a lot of problems here, and are all working under really bad contracts. I will never understand your meddling in all this, and your hatred of all things U. You don't need to poke and prod us on our situation. In the end, the real pilots affected by all this (at U and AWA) may or may not have to make their peace. I will do just that when the time comes. But we don't need or want outside agents adding to the fire.

Good luck in your career, and I hope I am wrong about you being unemployed. But please leave us alone, unless you have some constructive, or at least humorous comments to add. Do as you wish.

Sorry about you being sick, that sucks. Get better, come back her and joust with all of us..just don't make fun of our situation. We have enough on our plates.



******************

well said RR..... the fact that 767 likes to bash AAA and make fun of the fact that this airline had to downsize and lay off is truly pathetic...

 

[prechilill]

well said RR..... the fact that 767 likes to bash AAA and make fun of the fact that this airline had to downsize and lay off is truly pathetic...

He doesn't bash AAA, just a few crazies around here. There is a difference

 

[Zone5]

This article in the Charlotte Observer is not a bad description of where we are with this mess.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/01/26/2009415/us-airways-pilots-still-have-no.html#disqus_thread

The following comment to the article was posted yesterday morning:

"As a US Airways Captain (former America West), I and my western colleagues are perfectly happy to work through the end of our careers under our present contract. Our present contract is miles ahead of the legacy US Airways pilots' contract, on account of their employment with a failing airline where they had no career prospects moving forward - a point clearly noted in the seniority arbitration decision that resulted from our agreed-upon protocol.

US Airways customers need have no fear of any pilot labor-related service disruption, as former America West Airlines pilots stand ready to fly through any labor turbulence stemming from a non-legitimate pilot union."

This comment has since been removed. Attached is a PDF copy of the article with the above comment at the bottom.

From the tone of the comment, many newspaper readers might infer that this is coming from a "West" pilot representative and reflects the "official" position of that segment of the pilot group. Is it? and does it?

seajay

Sorry about the re-post, but I really am curious about whether or not the above comment, supposedly made by a "former America West" Captain to the recent Charlotte Observer article, represents a prevalent attitude among the west pilots or whether it is something of an anomaly. It clearly implies that in the event of release to "self-help" that the west would not participate in a lawful job action.

seajay

 

[oscarjazz]

Sorry about the re-post, but I really am curious about whether or not the above comment, supposedly made by a "former America West" Captain to the recent Charlotte Observer article, represents a prevalent attitude among the west pilots or whether it is something of an anomaly. It clearly implies that in the event of release to "self-help" that the west would not participate in a lawful job action.

seajay

This is a real question. USAPA has basically given up even pretending to represent the West pilots. They have made it clear they only care about what happens to the East pilots and the West pilots have to just suck it up because majority rules. Given that their union has abandoned them, why on Earth would you expect the West pilots to support their union? Shouldn't it be a two way street?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Sorry about the re-post, but I really am curious about whether or not the above comment, supposedly made by a "former America West" Captain to the recent Charlotte Observer article, represents a prevalent attitude among the west pilots or whether it is something of an anomaly. It clearly implies that in the event of release to "self-help" that the west would not participate in a lawful job action.

seajay

I would also be interested in knowing if this particular Captain had any experience "flying through labor turbulence" Down Under some years back.

 

[Code Name V]

Of course you do not, that would require you to have a defensible arguement.

Like Barrister you got nothing but accusations of hallucinogen use and attempts at undermining credibility.

Take a couple more, get some sleep, and call your shrink in the morning....

V

 

[exB717Flyer]

... but I really am curious about whether or not the above comment ... represents a prevalent attitude among the west pilots or whether it is something of an anomaly.

We all know a strike by USAPA is never going to happen for a myriad of reasons so this discussion is purely rhetorical.

The attitude is indeed prevalent. Even those like me who would never scab agree that USAPA's main goal (and raison d'être) is illegitimate and unworthy of support. Many who say they'll break a USAPA strike are just blowing off steam but I'm sure a few would make good on their pledge.

If this revelation somehow affects your view of the West pilots then so be it. The Easties have made a mockery of unionism and integrity so don't act shocked when Westies are willing to do anything and everything to subvert them.

 

[Ames]

Sorry about the re-post, but I really am curious about whether or not the above comment, supposedly made by a "former America West" Captain to the recent Charlotte Observer article, represents a prevalent attitude among the west pilots or whether it is something of an anomaly. It clearly implies that in the event of release to "self-help" that the west would not participate in a lawful job action.

seajay

If a contract proposal does not contain the seniority settlement contained in the final and binding arbritration known as the Nicolau list you don't expect support from the west. Basically, you can't possibly expect west pilots to strike for a DOH proposal that would put 80% of them at the bottom of the list - even below pilots who were on furlough when this thing began.

Although the Nicolau list puts formerly furloughed pilots at the bottom it gives the first 517 positions to the east and slots the remaining unfurloughed pilots to relative position. Compare the two situations and explain why you could possibly expect west pilots to support a contract proposal with DOH - and don't confuse the issue with the (worthless) "conditions and restrictions" because that dog won't hunt.

 

[Ames]

This is a real question. USAPA has basically given up even pretending to represent the West pilots. They have made it clear they only care about what happens to the East pilots and the West pilots have to just suck it up because majority rules. Given that their union has abandoned them, why on Earth would you expect the West pilots to support their union? Shouldn't it be a two way street?

This is true. West pilots also know that other airline pilots, especially alpa pilots, know the situation as well. It is clear that usapa is not a real union so solidarity is an absolute joke.

 

[cactusboy53]

Sorry about the re-post, but I really am curious about whether or not the above comment, supposedly made by a "former America West" Captain to the recent Charlotte Observer article, represents a prevalent attitude among the west pilots or whether it is something of an anomaly. It clearly implies that in the event of release to "self-help" that the west would not participate in a lawful job action.

seajay

Seajay;
I don't think a legal job action is ever a REMOTE possibility. We'll have to cross that bridge if an authorized strike is called when we come to it. I was wondering if you could address the following comment made by one of the east based pilots in the article:

"They can't improve as an airline and they can't improve their market share with this kind of fractured workforce," Brancatelli said. "Five years after the merger, we still see planes painted 'America West.' There seems to be no plan."

Is Pilot Brancatelli aware that there are only two America West paint theme aircraft that fall under the category of "heritage paint scheme"? Is Pilot Brancatelli equally mad about the PSA, Piedmont & Allegheny paint schemes? What about the Nevada & Arizona paint schemes?

I can only imagine the amount of angst that is caused by the NFL themed aircraft (unless of course Pilot Brancatelli is an avid Steelers fan, and they win the Superbowl on Feb. 6th). :blink:

 

[Piedmont1984]

If and when it comes time for a labor action (becomes ripe , I accept the fact that you may not be able to support the east because of the DOH issue. So be it. All I ask is you don't obstruct our efforts. Don't join us on the picket if that is what your conscience dictates. Just don't picket against us. Fly your trip if you feel compelled, just don't fly my trip.

One day this divide between us too will end. But there is no statute of limitations on the damage to yourself by engaging in strike breaking activity.

 

[cleardirect]

This is a real question. USAPA has basically given up even pretending to represent the West pilots. They have made it clear they only care about what happens to the East pilots and the West pilots have to just suck it up because majority rules. Given that their union has abandoned them, why on Earth would you expect the West pilots to support their union? Shouldn't it be a two way street?

You can be the judge. Just a few snippets from latest CLT update.

The record clearly shows we have overcome many obstacles and are winning our battles as we head toward our contract goal line. All available resources of our Union have been effectively utilized to create the successes leading the US Airways Pilots to secure an industry standard contract with a seniority list that recognizes date of hire with reasonable conditions and restrictions. Navigating through all the pitfalls and obstacles that have been put into place by those that attempt to obstruct us from our goals has not been an easy process. Failure has not been an option for any of us, and your Charlotte representatives remain singularly focused in our endeavors to achieve those goals.

One group in particular makes no bones about attempting to destroy your union and create division unless they are successful in forcing the implementation of an un-ratifiable seniority list, while another faction of pilots is attempting cause harm to the office of the President every chance they get simply because they do not like him. Both groups are using the tools of divide and conquer tactics on our pilots and are constantly attempting to interject political battles between parties and rivals that consume time and energy. As we have been managing these realities and juggling our time to maneuver through the minefields created while completing our work, it appears to us that recently there may have been a meeting of the minds of these obstructionists to coordinate their forces to cause more problematic distractions that could not only threaten to discredit the office of the USAPA President, but have the potential to reverse the progress we have made toward our goals during the last three years.

Doug Parker and Leonidas must be salivating at the prospect of the BPR consuming its energies on self-serving personal vendettas and personal interests while the rest of us for look to ways to win the contract war with the provisions that have been promised. As the amateur politic hour spools up, we are doing our best to remain committed to the goals as others race to bury the hatchet in the back of their current targets which could effectively cripple our union. We clearly see no winners here other than those that want more delayed time lines in attaining our contract.


It became painfully clear on the call that behind the scenes the EVP and many BPR members had in fact planned a Woodlawn cram-down

We submitted the resolution to move the address to the business park of Yorkmont Road to end this silliness, and the BPR voted 8 (DCA, PHL, PHX) to 3(CLT) not to go there. Talk about a cram down;

So I guess CLT has been snowy white and clean in all of this.

If you don't agree with the president or CLT you are trying to destroy the union. Everything this union is, it is about seniority and getting DOH. Nothing has changed in 3 years.

You see when it is an 8/3 east west it is a majority. when it is an 8/3 CLT/ everyone else it is a cram down.