US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

Well said and let me add something about LOA 93. The company meant it to be the mirror image of AWA, with a little jetBlue thrown in. Only our inept MEC, lack of national oversight, pilot fatigue and constant pilot infighting made it worse. My good friend said it best "AWA was the template for LOA 93", yet now they love throwing it up.

The AWA contract you reference was from 1995- C2004 was a much needed improvement and we did it (first one btw since 9/11) through an ATSB loan. You admit above that you guys torpedoed yourselves, so why do you insist ALPA national was to blame for your LOA93?

 

[Black Swan]

And you guys took took "parity+1" without so much of a hiccup...Then did the same with LOA 93. See the pattern?

Thanks for the added info, btw. I think you guys are incapable of going on strike.

Well, if Kasher rules for USAPA, you are right. You will wish you had that part of LOA 93 in your contract. Airbus 320 rate- in the neighborhood of 185/hr. 757 pay rate $205 hr. roughly. See the pattern?

 

[Pi brat]

Your pilot group has yet to go on strike. There are many pilots at AWA that walked lines at CO and EA, one of which your union attempted a RICO suit against. Your pilot group certainly doesn't measure up to anything unique in this industry- especially when compared to the AWA pilot group. Your friends are saying otherwise, I disagree.
When you climb your way out of your hole I might have a change of opinion, as of right now you guys are completely ineffective as a pilot group.

The east pilot group as made up now has not been on strike, just as yours hasn't. We both have guys/gals that have walked the line,but I'd say the US pilot group has provided much more financial support for those pilots than the west group. This entire group is ineffective because of the many splits between us. Your type of constant b.s.(as well as those east that do the same) won't do anything to speed healing when the seniority fight is over. People like you and AWA320 just can't get that.

 

[Black Swan]

You are nothing but a bitter, wanna-be-real-airline-pilot wasting away on LOA 93, and hoping to steal from others to repair your miserable career.

Accept your lot in life. You might live longer.

I am THE messenger.

Ok, you are The Real United. Believe it. Kasher, is the REAL messenger...........

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Proving the point that the east talks tough but never stands up and fights. (Except among themselves in the union hallways.) Why accept an 8-10% pay cut? There was no bankruptcy on the horizon at the time. You could have taken it to a strike vote at least.

The fact that the sophisticated UAL pilots had never been able to catch up to the East contract over the proceeding decades gave Wolf and co. the talking points and leverage to sell it as just bring US Airways pilot cost in line with the "Big 4", so it could sustain growth.

I don't think many East pilots wold thank you for that legacy from the "World's Biggest Airline."

 

[Pi brat]

The AWA contract you reference was from 1995- C2004 was a much needed improvement and we did it (first one btw since 9/11) through an ATSB loan. You admit above that you guys torpedoed yourselves, so why do you insist ALPA national was to blame for your LOA93?

I have said that most of our problems were our own pilot's fault, but wasn't national supposed to be there to be a resource? Sometimes we just didn't listen, but in other areas I think they were asleep at the watch, or just looking out for themselves.

 

[767jetz]

So did we. That's part of why ALPA is off the property.

Since when did ALPA National provide professional negotiators that you can blame in hindsight? They didn't. Come on oldie... admit it. There was no one but the company and east pilots that you and your buddies elected and assigned in the room when those contracts were "negotiated."

There are some much more creative methods of "self help" these days.

Really? Then why all the threats about being released by the NMB? (Something that will never happen under current circumstances.) Why not start those "creative methods" now? What are you waiting for? Pressure the company to join your DOH cram down and attach themselves to the pursuant law suit that you and they will certainly lose.

Oh yeah. You have already said that if you win the LOA93 grievance then there is no reason for a contract. See how things always go full circle and end up right back in your lap?

Nothing but more tough talk. You are part of a group who never met a concession you didn't agree to, and never took a stand against ANY management.

 

[Pi brat]

You make an excellent point. These guys sure do talk tough for a bunch who never actually stood up to management and helped the industry. They hide in fear, vote for every concession, ride the coattails of everyone else, then blame anyone they can for their lot in life. Reminds me of the few dozen pilots in CLT who "picketed" as they called it, standing around with their hands in their pockets looking completely pathetic.

You really have gotten to be pretty sad. Nothing better to do but be the west's ####.

Piedmont took a strike for UA over the third guy on the 737, they couldn't do it themselves.

Maybe CO's people can save your miserable bunch. I feel sorry for them, it's quite a load.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

You really have gotten to be pretty sad. Nothing better to do but be the west's ####.

Piedmont took a strike for UA over the third guy on the 737, they couldn't do it themselves.

Maybe CO's people can save your miserable bunch. I feel sorry for them, it's quite a load.

It was convenient how UAL postponed its deliveries so Piedmont would have to be the first to face the issue.

 

[BoeingBoy]

let me add something about LOA 93. The company meant it to be the mirror image of AWA, with a little jetBlue thrown in.

Another of the urban legends that is passed off as fact. In BK2 the company laid out how the costs they wanted were arrived at. It was the average cost per available seat mile of 5 low cost carriers for each employee group. For pilots, it just happened that the average for the 5 lcc's was within a few of hundredths of a cent/asm of AWA.

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

Well, if Kasher rules for USAPA, you are right. You will wish you had that part of LOA 93 in your contract. Airbus 320 rate- in the neighborhood of 185/hr. 757 pay rate $205 hr. roughly. See the pattern?

Guess what the "pattern" will be if Kasher awards you snap backs, ( odds 1: 1 billion)?

Parker will dismantle the East overnight. If you win, you Lose. If you Lose, you Lose.

See a pattern here?

 

[Pi brat]

Another of the urban legends that is passed off as fact. In BK2 the company laid out how the costs they wanted were arrived at. It was the average cost per available seat mile of 5 low cost carriers for each employee group. For pilots, it just happened that the average for the 5 lcc's was within a few of hundredths of a cent/asm of AWA.

Jim

Well, the former chief pilot, current A330 check airman that said he spent a month in Tempe studying the AWA contract and system lied to my face, because he said that was why he was sent there.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Guess what the "pattern" will be if Kasher awards you snap backs, ( odds 1: 1 billion)?

Parker will dismantle the East overnight. If you win, you Lose. If you Lose, you Lose.

See a pattern here?

Why is that? The company has said the cost of snapbacks are around the same dollar amount as the projected cost increase of the "Kirby" proposal. It wouldn't break the bank, but they might claim there isn't any more money to go around. I guess that could suck more for some.

 

[Black Swan]

Have you been on another planet, or do you just not read what your partners in crime here write? That is EXACTLY what you eastholes have been saying all along! To paraphrase and remind you, 'If we win the LOA93 grievance, then we will have separate ops forever. There will never be a vote on a contract. You won't see a contract until we are all gone and you inherit this place.' It's YOUR tactic, but funny how you don't like it when it backfires.

Nice try though. Typical east tactic... accuse others of doing the EXACT thing you have been doing all along. USAPA: the hypocrite's club in a fantasy world of double standards.


I don't have to wish it. It is just a forgone conclusion. USAPA is your experiment. It's your mess to clean up. Don't expect sympathy when the implosion occurs.

I'm just THE messenger.

And we get the message just fine. You seem to like putting your nose in everybodys business under the supposed guise of being a UAL pilot. Here is a message for you right back. We don't buy it.

 

[Pi brat]

Guess what the "pattern" will be if Kasher awards you snap backs, ( odds 1: 1 billion)?

Parker will dismantle the East overnight. If you win, you Lose. If you Lose, you Lose.

See a pattern here?

A west pilot(and I don't believe you are not) hoping the company will not honor an arbitration. Irony.