US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

Please, please, please tell me this is a ruse and you are not that dense. How many east pilots have left the seniority list since May 2005???????????? Remember that whole attrition issue? Collelo was back and had several hundred under him BEFORE the Nic came out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have 5000 pilots, retire 500 and hire 50, has the seniority list grown? No! Indoc has nothing to do with it.

How can you retire 450 pilots and have Monda the same system seniority number five years later? The numbers being put out do not add up, hence the reason you guys sent about 450 pilots through indoc since May 2005. Bottom line, you are doing a bunch more flying than what the numbers show because Monda has at present about 250 active pilots below him actively flying.
You have had a lot of growth in the past five years, otherwise Monda would be within a hundred numbers from furlough. He is nowhere close to that.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Are you saying Boeing Boy sold his fellow workers out because his kid is West?

I'll say that you can't believe anything the poster you were replying to says even though it won't make an iota of difference anyway. You and the west will say and believe anything bad about those who don't agree with you on what a fair integration is.

Jim

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

How can you retire 450 pilots and have Monda the same system seniority number five years later? The numbers being put out do not add up, hence the reason you guys sent about 450 pilots through indoc since May 2005. Bottom line, you are doing a bunch more flying than what the numbers show because Monda has at present about 250 active pilots below him actively flying.
You have had a lot of growth in the past five years, otherwise Monda would be within a hundred numbers from furlough. He is nowhere close to that.

Over 600 pilots retired between May 2005 and the age change to 65 in December in 2007. More than a hundred leaving the bid since then with the early out and pilots leaving the bid on LTD. No growth, attrition.

 

[N924PS]

How can you retire 450 pilots and have Monda the same system seniority number five years later? The numbers being put out do not add up, hence the reason you guys sent about 450 pilots through indoc since May 2005. Bottom line, you are doing a bunch more flying than what the numbers show because Monda has at present about 250 active pilots below him actively flying.
You have had a lot of growth in the past five years, otherwise Monda would be within a hundred numbers from furlough. He is nowhere close to that.

I don't have the numbers, but are you accounting for the East attrition from Age 60 retirements that took place from May 2005 through December 2007?

 

[GuntherA320]

You are a piece of work. Blame me by guilt by association and complain when I illustrate that I could easily to the same. Some of you East posters are certainly hypocrites for following one standard them telling those who disagree you you all about the fair method to integrate lists that they can't use the standard you use.

Jim

Jim,

Someone claimed you have a son or a close relative on the West seniority list. Is this true? If so, it would explain a lot.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hi Jim,

2011 East and West Seniority Lists are available on Wings under Flight Operations/Miscellaneous Topics ( how appropriate!).

Thanks, but for some reason I don't have a "Miscellaneous topics" under Flt Ops. Maybe they decided that retirees don't need that kind of info, but it seems odd that I can access CBS messages, the electronic library, etc and look at a seniority list

Of course, the "official" seniority list is run at the first of the year so for May 2005 & 2011 it would be a few months off. That's the nice thing about bid closing seniority lists - They're up to date for the month/day the bid is effective as well as listing everyone's status as of that month/day.

Maybe by tomorrow night I'll have finished loading software on the new computer and can read the old bid seniority lists.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

Someone claimed you have a son or a close relative on the West seniority list. Is this true? If so, it would explain a lot.

Someone? We both know who claimed that. The same "someone" who accused me of being an ALPA rep who single handedly stapled the Empire pilots.

Doesn't matter what I say - all the East posters will believe what they want anyway. Just a word to the wise, however, Nos makes a lot of things up. Like nearly every East poster, you all seem to be convinced that I have some ulterior motive for favoring what I consider is a better starting point for integrating seniority and not just this integration.

Jim

 

[prechilill]

I don't have the numbers, but are you accounting for the East attrition from Age 60 retirements that took place from May 2005 through December 2007?

I don't have the info you do, only estimated based on the PID seniority list from 2005 and DOB listed there. Didn't go through the entire list, just the most likely age group (i.e. the top part of the list). I counted about 150 retirements for the 30 months leading up to December 2007.

 

[Pi brat]

How can you retire 450 pilots and have Monda the same system seniority number five years later? The numbers being put out do not add up, hence the reason you guys sent about 450 pilots through indoc since May 2005. Bottom line, you are doing a bunch more flying than what the numbers show because Monda has at present about 250 active pilots below him actively flying.
You have had a lot of growth in the past five years, otherwise Monda would be within a hundred numbers from furlough. He is nowhere close to that.

It's not a ruse!

 

[Pi brat]

Someone? We both know who claimed that. The same "someone" who accused me of being an ALPA rep who single handedly stapled the Empire pilots.

Doesn't matter what I say - all the East posters will believe what they want anyway. Just a word to the wise, however, Nos makes a lot of things up. Like nearly every East poster, you all seem to be convinced that I have some ulterior motive for favoring what I consider is a better starting point for integrating seniority and not just this integration.

Jim

I will say this for Jim, I do believe that he truly believes that a relative position list is more fair than a DOH and that is his only original motive for his posts. But Jim, you do seem to go out of your way to favor the west pilots, even if it doesn't even relate to that debate.

 

[N924PS]

I don't have the info you do, only estimated based on the PID seniority list from 2005 and DOB listed there. Didn't go through the entire list, just the most likely age group (i.e. the top part of the list). I counted about 150 retirements for the 30 months leading up to December 2007.

There were quite a few in the "likely age group" that weren't that high up the list.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I will say this for Jim, I do believe that he truly believes that a relative position list is more fair than a DOH and that is his only original motive for his posts. But Jim, you do seem to go out of your way to favor the west pilots, even if it doesn't even relate to that debate.

Actually I favor the Nic (though I'd make two small changes). It just happens that that's what the West favors also. Reverse the positions - the West is the majority and trying to get out of an arbitrator's relative position for equip/seat combined list while the East if fighting to keep that and I be "favoring" the East pilots.

No East poster but you may believe it, but it's only about what I believe is a fair starting point for merging seniority lists. You may recall that I said nearly 3 years ago that seniority isn't when you got on the list or seniority would only increase and never go backward. Seniority is where you are on the list - the top Captain is still the top, no matter whether it took 10 or 25 years to get to the top.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

There were quite a few in the "likely age group" that weren't that high up the list.

Correct - East had retirements from throughout their list, including from furlough. I suspect that a large part and maybe all of the discrepancy everyone's arguing about is the medical leave folks. As I've said twice at least, when the retirement age changed the people on long-term medical didn't go to retired status for 5 extra years so the number on medical would have increased a lot faster than before the age change when people on medical were nearly offset by people retiring from medical.

Jim

 

[prechilill]

There were quite a few in the "likely age group" that weren't that high up the list.

According to the east seniority list labeled March 2011: 810 seniority numbers behind Colello, 220 of which are furloughed, Military LOA, personal leave, sick leave or resigned. About 600 active pilots behind him.

 

[prechilill]

PI Brat,
If you can reconcile the numbers for me I would sincerely appreciate it. No bashing, no vitriol, consider me stupid- just explain how Monda can have 600 some odd pilots below him on the 2011 seniority list when the east is supposedly barely above minimums. And this doesn't even include the pilots who came back to the company since the PID from a leave of absence who were ahead of Monda.